Rotavating, tilling, ploughing... any appreciable differences?

In our terms the area is too small to Plough, so you would need to look at Tillling or Rotovating.
Tilling is just breaking up the top inch or two to make the soil in the the "Fine Tilth" that you need to sow.
Rotovating is braking up the whole layer of topsoil so decompact it and to turn it over.

I have a Rotovator that is 5hp it is the size of a shopping trolly and use that first to break it up in to fist size lumps and mix in the manure, then I have Mantis that is about half HP and is the size of a Microwave I use that to break down the clumps in to soil. It would never breakup the clay on its own it is too under powered.

Not being sexist I am a BFB (Big Fat B'startd) 18stone of prime cut and after a day of rotovating I can sometimes not drive home cos I ache too much, so I would recommend that you get a bloke to do it. The manits (don't buy one...cos the Honda one is better and cheeper) is great, small, easy to use but will not go down the 8-10 inches to break up the soil if it is clay.

Depending on you soil you should onl need to rotovate once or at worst once a year.

Do what most people to start in one corner and set your self an acheivable goal. 1 row or 1/2 way across. Then do that and go home. dont try to dig it all at once cos you will give up .

I have an OAP who has this year taken a plot near me and she was going to give up cos it was too much. but I helped her cover a ump of the plot and got her to do the one row a time and then go and do a bit of tidying or pruning then go home happy. And she is loving it now. Just do the target.

If you can't dig them get a pair of loppers and chop them off at ground leve then every time they put thir head up chop them again. Only did them out if you have to.

Ploughing have a look here: http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/farming...ing/index.html
Tilling:http://www.green-trust.org/2000/gardening/soilch5.htm

I would think it needs rotorvating with a tractor if posible a lot more grunt than one operated by hand unless some body on your site has a big one (rotorvater)that is if there lots of roots it needs big engine with plenty of power if you get it done obviously there will be lots of new growth from bits of root but they will be easier to dig out of the softer ground.
Dont be fooled by the old saying i will plant potatoes to clean the ground up it is the hoeing that cleans the ground up any way good luck jacob

Thanks chaps. My lottie neighbour did say he could get me a bloke to 'plough' it but I perhaps need to check exactly what he meant then

Much as I hate to do the 'I'm just a girl!' thing, yes, I think if I hire equipment, I'd be better off hiring the chap that comes with it too. If I owned a rotavator I might try and do it very gradually myself but hire prices would end up silly if I could only manage a little bit a day.

I don't think just cutting them back will work as they're absolutely rampant and the roots are everywhere

I do know I'll end up with loads of chopped up roots and new shoots but at least it will be less physical effort (if more time!) to deal with them.

I understand that your land area is quite large ( mine just over 330 sq yards) but I don't think rotovating is the answer as all it will do is cut the roots up & NOT kill them.
Cooch grass can grow from a very small piece of root(less than 2")
I dug my lottie over a period of 6 months or so(hard work but worth it)
But I had no brambles to speak of.
Also I refuse to use weedkiller.
After getting of the roots then it may be a good idea to rotovate.

Again I am not trying to cultivate nearly as big a patch but I would go with the dig them out a bit at a time approach. I have found that the big root clumps only come along every few feet so even I can manage to dig out around 4 or 5 at a time which to a normal person would allow a fair bit of digging. Due to my health restrictions, I keep my beds about 7 foot wide and once I have dug about 3 to 4 foot it all gets planted. This probably sounds hopeless but it is what I can manage now (and I used to think nothing of carrying 2 bales of hay at a time for 300 yards!). The roots come out quite easily really - leave them to die back for a while after cutting the tops off - I found that the small roots die back then and you are left with a woody clump which you can lever out.

I have had no re-growth on the area where the roots were dug out if that helps reassure you that the work is worth it.

Horses for courses here, I think, Seahorse.

Most here on the Vine would agree with the 'if you're going to do a job properly, then dig it over by the sweat of your brow etc etc,' and this is BY FAR the best approach for a long term wonderful plot. Mind you, we should take more exercise and eat less chocolate, and that's not gonna happen either, is it?

Life is a series of compromises, and if it takes you until 2050 to dig the plot properly being a weedy girly and with zillions of unhelpful offspring and eating nothing but couch grass and bramble soup, then having a lottie is going to be no fun at all.

You could weedkill the whole lot, cover with cardboard/manure and come back in the spring, but that isn't going to magic the bramble roots away, and lets face it, you've a huge area to deal with somehow.

If you do the rotavator thing, you WILL be weeding till kingdom come, but at least you'll have a plot that you can hoe, rather that have to use a matock to sow each carrot seed!

So two choices - raze it to the ground, cover everything with card/manure, then reclaim a short area each week, and you will have the most marvellous plot in time for your retirement, or get a man in, have a flying start with the whole plot, but be chained to the hoe for the rest of your life. Mind you, iwth the latter, at least you can be eating veg whilst you hoe.

Oh - finally, if you do go for the rotavate/hoe thing, I wouldn't plant anything 'permanent' (cane fruit/bushes) for a year or two as you'll be planting them into ground bursting with weeds all round their roots, and I think they might not like that.

Ideally, do it the hard way - personally, I'd get a man in.

I take a leaf out of the Seven Dwarfs gardening manual....I dig,dig,dig,dig,dig,dig,...dig,dig,........... dig the whole day through.

Allotmenteers are usually masochists and actually enjoy digging and weeding. What better way to while away a couple of hours on a bright Autumn or Winters day and put a bit of warmth into those chilled bones!

Most of the newbies on our site who dive in with a hired rotovator, are not seen again for a couple of months, attend in spring for a days planting of tatties or seeds and return another couple of months later supposedly to harvest there crops which are by that time under three foot of weeds and devoured by caterpillars
It's quite funny to watch someone who has never used a rotovator being dragged around an allotment. It's usually the male of the species macho domain whilst the female looks on in amazement!

Nope, not a great fan of rotovators even though I have access to one. Steady away, little and often, single digging, sowing or mulching as you go is the way for me. You only need do it once, as I have, then it's just cover with a thick mulch annually and you never need dig again! Dug about 700square meteres in three months........nights and weekends and can safely say I enjoyed the last weekend!

Oooh, now see, such a variation in advice that my brain is likely to explode

I *do* enjoy digging but also have to bear in mind that I won't be growing anything at all if I'm lying on the sofa whingeing about back pain for the next six months

Hoeing I can do and although it's hard to organise extended sessions (kids!) I can certainly do weeding 'little and (very) often', pretty much every weekday in fact.

I do appreciate it's not the perfect approach but I'm really leaning towards Hazel's 'horses for courses' approach, including the 'getting a man in bit' - having just reread all my replies I have realised I am barely half Nog's size and if a rotavator is that much like hard work for an (ahem!) 'BFB', I hate to think how I'd fare

Join the queue for 'tutting and saying "I told her so" ' now though!

Claire

All plants need above soil growth so if you cut them off at soil level they will come back but weaker then when you kepp cutting they will die. Then dig them out when you plant.

I was ALMOST very witty there for a mo with 'SEA horses for courses' but then had to have a lie down at my own brilliance....

ooooooh yes, every time!

That won't work with cooch grass as it grows from the roots.
The only way to get rid of it is to dig the roots out.

Oooh, Hazel! Get back in the knife draw before you cut yourself!

I was thinking about this in the silent watches of the night (as you do) and have decided I will probably try a compromise. I'll get it all razed to ground(ish) level as soon as I can, then cover it with black plastic (or similar) over the worst of the winter. When the growing season starts to approach, I'll see if the digging is any easier with the weeds and brambles weakened a bit and take it from there.

Claire

. When the growing season starts to approach, I'll see if the digging is any easier with the weeds and brambles weakened a bit and take it from there.

Claire[/QUOTE]

What you have got to think about is what do i want to grow and when because the growing season as you call it is only 5 yes 5 months away what i would do in your place if i had a chance get it ploughed if not rotorvated then cover half of it up and fork over the other half it will be easier once the ground is disturbed then at least you can plant some thing early spring ie - peas broad beans potatoes onion set shallots if you leave it until spring you will end up with purgatry and a bad back and nothing to show for it this is what i would do hopefully you do what is best for you jacob

Oh cor blimey, I never knew things would get so confuzzling

I have asked my Mum to come over for a few days extended babysitting so that (in the words of Van the Man) I can 'get down to what is really wrong' without a two year old glued to my leg! I suppose the bottom line is that what will be will be and whatever option I choose, it's not life or death (except for the brambles!!!).

Not that this means I won't be meeping about advice on any and all trivial nonsense in the near future!