Which yeast?

[organic]

I've got an elderberry wine on the go using Gervin No2 - which according to my homework will ferment up to around 16% before the alcohol kills it.

From what I can gather that means either using chemicals, having a completely dry wine or a strong wine that can then be sweetened up a bit.

That's actually stronger than I wanted to go (I'd like about 12%ish), and the powers that be have requested a medium-sweet wine. I'd rather not use chemicals so one of us will have to compromise... either dry at around 12% or medium up around 16%.

Since I'm trying to avoid chemicals in my wine I'm looking for a good yeast for fruit wines that will stop at a lower alcohol content than that. Somewhere between, say, 11% and 14%.

I'll be starting a Sloe wine in a week and a bit so could do with finding something suitable by then.

Any suggestions?

[Two_Sheds]

less sugar.
You'll only get a really strong wine if you put piles of sugar in.
An SG of about 1092 at the start, will give you a potential alcohol 12%
(roughly, I haven't got the hydrometer in front of me)

[organic]

Yea, less sugar means lower ABV...

...but if there's not enough sugar to go to full strength, the wine will be a dry one, with all the sugar turned to alcohol and no real sweetness left right?

So if I want a sweet wine with this yeast I'll have to kill the yeat (which pretty much means chemicals from what I can tell) or go to full strength then add sugar- right?

If I want a sweet wine of about 12% without using chemical trickery to kill the yeast, I'll need one that reaches full strength around 12% - right?

Or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick here?

Oh, and my initial SG was, I think, 1.084.

[rustylady]

If you add less sugar and leave it to ferment out it should end up at your required 12%. The yeast will die when it has used all the sugar, so leave the wine to clear completely and then add sugar to taste.

[organic]

Ah OK... I thought the yeast would just start fermenting again when the new sugar was added.
I'm not after burst bottles or a sparkling red so don't really want it starting up again just before I bottle it.

The only puzzle then will be how much sugar to add to get a goo compromise between the drier wine I'd like and the sweeter one my girlfriend would like!

Oh the fun I'm having doing this!

[Two_Sheds]

Ah OK... I thought the yeast would just start fermenting again when the new sugar was added.

Most recipes tell you to add a Campden tablet to stop fermentation. Then you can add sugar, or white grape juice, to sweeten to taste.

[rustylady]

The only puzzle then will be how much sugar to add to get a goo compromise between the drier wine I'd like and the sweeter one my girlfriend would like!

Oh the fun I'm having doing this!

You may have to taste a lot of wine to get it just right!!! Enjoy

[organic]

TwoSheds
They would - I'm trying to do it as chemical-free as possible though. I'd rather find a yeast that stopped around the strength I'd like than dump Sulfur Dioxide into something I'm going to drink.
Maybe I'm being a bit tight about that, but I'd rather not drink something with that gear in it.


rustylady...
Really?
Oh... I don't think I'll bother then. I wouldn't be doing this if I thought I had to DRINK the stuff!

[Two_Sheds]

you don't drink non-organic wine then? in the pub, from the shop?

[organic]

I go for organic wherever possible... making my own stuff I'll only go non-organic if there's really no other way.

[Skotch]

There is one other way of 'stopping' the fermentation before its completely dry and that is to artificially 'fortify' it at a lower alcohol level to get the sweetness level right and stopping the wine from fermenting further and getting dryer. However, it will mean a much stronger wine. Simply add some spirit - vodka may be best if you don't want it to taste too much of anything else. The extra alcohol will kill the yeast naturally.

I make an elderberry port style fortified wine using this method and it tastes great. I've got bottles nearly 10 years old using this method and the resultant drink is lovely and soft with a nice long 'finish' to it

HTH

[Two_Sheds]

how much sugar to add to get a goo compromise between the drier wine I'd like and the sweeter one my girlfriend would like!

I would make a wine to your drier taste, and then when you drink it, add a bit of sugar or grape juice to your girlfriend's wine. Even lemonade, perhaps? Like a spritzer.

I found this, which might interest you:
Some wines, such as Riesling ....are not fermented dry, to retain some sweetness to enhance the flavor of the fruit. To keep these wines sweeter than dry whites, you need to stop the fermentation process before all the sugar is depleted.

Stopping fermentation is usually done in one of two ways. You can add a little sulfur dioxide, which kills the yeasts, or you can lower the temperature of the wine, which will also stop fermentation and leave the wine with some residual sugar. This results in wines with lower alcohol content. It has how much alcohol?

[Brewer-again]

controlling wine

OK, so you could add sulphur dioxide tablets but I can see/taste why you may not want to.
You could heat or cool the wine to kill the yeast, but it is a great survivor.

I recently bought some half and half sugar by mistake that contains a sweetener. If you used some of this then the wine would finish at 12% but retain some sacharide sweetness.
If you can work out how to apply the correct amount ( which I could earlier in the day ) then this should allow you to make what you want.

[Two_Sheds]

I recently bought some half and half sugar

Sweeteners (*Aspartame, Acesulfame-K) ... probably wouldn't fit Organic's organic criteria

[organic]

Half and half is a pretty good idea, though I think TS is right... I really don't like that kind of stuff :S
Someone challenged me to a taste test on sweeteners once. I said it didn't matter either way as I don't go for sugar over sweetener for taste.

I try to avoid hysteria and conspiracy theories (though I don't dismiss either out of hand) but there do seem to be question marks over those things and I'm inclined to play it safe and stick with the more natural gear.


As for temperature - that's a good idea. I'd be more inclined to try killing it with cold than with heat (I get the impression it's less likely to affect the taste) but I don't know how cold I'd need to get it to take effect.

Sweetening to taste when it's time to drink it sounds like it could be worth a try.

I wonder though, would there be much difference in flavour between a sweet wine left for a year before drinking and a dry wine left for a year and sweetened before drinking?

Maybe I'll split the batch in 2, some bottled dry and some bottled after chilling and sweetening.

(As with many things that interest me I know I'm probably over thinking it here - it'll probably be perfectly drinkable either way - I quite enjoy it that way though... many ways to skin a cat and all of them fun to mull over long before it's ready for skinning.)