Cider-making

[StephenH]

In a few weeks, I'm hoping to make cider from my apples, which I think are 'James Grieve'. I tried for the first time three years ago, but the results, though drinkable, were boring and insipid: not surprising, since I only used one variety. This time, I'm adding some crabs, three or four different varieties, from trees growing locally in public places, mainly hedgerows, to hopefully increase the astringency, and give it a bit of 'bite'. I'm also going to ferment it using the natural yeast on the apple skins, as well as any wild yeast in the atmosphere, rather than, as last time, sulphiting and then adding wine yeast. I've bought a fruit crusher (one suitable for hard fruit: I originally ordered one which wasn't, but the supplier asked me what I wanted it for, and I changed the order to his recommendation) and a medium-sized fruit press. I hope I don't have to add sugar to get the starting gravity up to a reasonable level - it doesn't have to be all that alcoholic.
Any advice from experienced ciderers would be appreciated.

[Capsid]

Sound's great. I've wanted to do this too but the price of a proper fruit crusher (which I think is essential) and press have been prohibitive (even on ebay). Can I ask how much you paid?

I tried blitzing the apples in a food processor and then pressing them in a home made device which was a lot of work and produced about 1 litre of juice. So I gave up that idea. The juice was delicious though!

[StephenH]

They were rather pricy - I can't remember how much (I'll check), but a good few hundred smackeroonies. I couldn't normally hope to afford them, but I got a nice lump sum from my pension provider on reaching 60 recently (being a clapped-out old fart has its advantages), and spent some of it on nice stuff.
However, you don't need a crusher - you can do it the way my cider-making book* recommends, with a big lump of wood in a large bucket, such as a 5-gallon fermenting bin. That's how I did it three years ago, the first year I made cider. It's hard work, but quite fun, especially if two people do it together, one either side.

*'Real Cidermaking on a Small Scale', by Michael Pooley and John Lomax, pub. by 'Amateur Winemaker', I.S.B.N. 978-1-85486-195-5

My press. There is a cheaper - though not cheap - version of the same press which is not stainless throughout from the same supplier, and you can also buy smaller presses, of course - or make your own, if you're the handy type: 'Real Cidermaking' gives full instructions and drawings. You can, at a pinch, make cider without a press, as I did three years ago, by putting smallish amounts of the pulp into a straining bag and wringing it with your hands, but it's very hard, very tedious, very messy work, and you probably don't extract nearly as much juice as you would with a press.
I wanted to provide a link to my crusher as well, but 'wineworks' seems to have gone down. I'll try again later. However, this firm have a couple of models which are similar, though not identical.

[Coastie]

Keep your eyes open at car boot sales my son picked one up for a fiver along with a load of demi johns and brewing stuff.
coastie

[zazen999]

We pressed a load of apples for cider [into the night], and used the solids to make apple wine at my brother's last year. The wine was alot nicer than the cider so it's all going to wine this year. Buckets at the ready.

[StephenH]

This is the model of crusher I bought - 'Wineworks' are back up. It's described as 'Small', but it's quite sizable, and is the one they recommended to go with the 11-litre press.

[StephenH]

We pressed a load of apples for cider [into the night], and used the solids to make apple wine at my brother's last year. The wine was alot nicer than the cider so it's all going to wine this year. Buckets at the ready.

You can make both cider and wine, like I did three years ago - make cider with the pure juice, then re-use the pulp to make apple wine, with some minced sultanas and sugar added to bring the o.g. up to a reasonable level - 1070-1080. The cider three years ago wasn't up to much, as I said earlier, but the wine was fantastic!

[bobleponge]

I've got loads of apple trees, all of them absolutely stuffed full of apples this year. I tried making cider a couple of years ago but failed. Pathetically.
Going to try again this year, but am somewhat pessimistic as over the 6 years I've lived here I've tried to make cider and wines of all different varieties and NEVER had anything that was remotely drinkable.
I'd forgotten about the rosehip wine and the marrow wine that I'd bottled up last year, so, after reading this thread I went out to the laundry room and dragged them out and opened them. They were both very clear but as soon as the bottle opened it was exactly the same disappointment.
The look on Mme P's face as she tasted the marrow one was something to behold.
I must be doing something profoundly wrong, yet I follow instructions to the letter, does get me down a touch.

[StephenH]

Try different instructions! Which book are you using?

[bobleponge]

Over the last 6 years I have tried any number of recipes, marrow, rosehip, parsnip, elderberry, blackerry wines and cider. Recipes have come from here, and from loads of different internet sites.
Nothing has worked.
(assume grumpy face inserted).

I am, as I type this, starting a batch of blackberry wine, from this link

Wine Making - Blackberry Wine Recipe, Making Your Own Wine, Low Cost Living

and will follow it exactly as it says. I have all the correct ingredients, I am in the process of sterilising everything, and I hope this will work ....

[StephenH]

Oh well - good luck!
N.B. - if it tastes medicinal, it's not got enough acidity. Fortunately, you can correct this by adding citric acid (though it's best added, if necessary, before fermentation).

[Hilary B]

I hardly follow recipes at all, and while some ingredients simply don't work for me, if it works, it works! Not tried cider, since I don't have access to the quantity of apples, but assorted country wines mostly turn out somewhere between delicious and OK.
What will always disappoint is if you expect a wine made from some other ingredient to taste like a grape wine, it will never be quite the same, and isn't meant to be, but it can be very good!

[StephenH]

I agree absolutely. Many country-wine makers do their best to imitate grape wine, and many books tell them to, but I think it's a mistake. Let the wine be what it wants to be!

[StephenH]

I've spent a few happy hours in the back garden in the fantastic weather today, making cider. I put all my stored apples through the apple-crusher, which was quite hard work, and then put the resulting pulp, inside a straining bag, into the press, in a number of different lots. I got 5 gallons of juice, which will probably translate into 4-4.5 gallons of cider, after it's been racked off the lees a few times. I tasted some of the juice as I was pressing it - very sweet, much sweeter than commercial apple juice. That, no doubt, demonstrates the wisdom of storing them for a few weeks to continue ripening and getting sweeter. The more sugar at the start, the more alcohol at the finish. The juice all went into one of my 5-gallon fermenters (they actually hold getting on for seven gallons if you fill them right up to the neck, so there was plenty of space), and an airlock fitted. I want to make the cider using the natural yeast present on the fruit and in the air, rather than adding wine yeast. I was going to make up a wine-yeast starter, though, to add to it if it didn't get going of its own accord within a day or two. That, however, proved to be unnecessary, as it showed signs of fermenting almost immediately. Some or all of the pulp - there's a huge amount of it, about five gallons - will be used again to make apple wine, beefed up with sugar and minced sultanas. I'll use wine yeast for that, though.
The original gravity of the juice was 1048, which should, if I ferment it out to dryness as I intend to, give almost 6% alcohol by volume, which is very respectable. The question, though, is whether the wild yeast will be alcohol-tolerant enough to reach that level. However, as long as it's not horribly sweet, I'll be happy with it being less than bone-dry.

[Hilary B]

You may be able to buy cider yeast.....