Fermented Foods

[smallblueplanet]

PS Snoop Puss we also now make kefir - for the OHs IBS symptoms and sauerkraut as another fermented food.

The kefir is made with whole milk and kept in the fridge, the sauerkraut goes in the fridge when it's fermented enough.

From the sourdough thread. We make kefir and also sauerkraut. The sauerkraut in the picture has carrots in it.

So I got a teaspoon of kefir grains and added it to a 1litre mason jar and poured in 500ml of (organic) whole milk.

If I'd just left it out on the kitchen worktops in the UK (at about 22C) it would take maybe 24-36 hours to ferment. I'd then strain the kefir grain out (it will get bigger and other grains will grow), put the strained kefir into a bottle, add 500ml of milk to the original kefir grain back in the mason jar, and go again.

Now as we don't need 500ml of kefir a day (maybe every 4 days) what I actually do is rather than leave the kefir grain and milk out fermenting I put it into the fridge. When it seems like we've nearly drunk the kefir I take the jar out of the fridge, let it 'ferment' - thicken up - strain it off and start again. It will be fermenting in the fridge but more slowly, temperature is what affects it.

Nothing complicated at all. Originally kefir was milk fermented in 'sheep skins' slung on the back of horses carried across the Eurasian steppes. How 'dirty' do you want?

I think like with sauerkraut the bacteria doing the fermenting is 'stronger' than any 'bad' bacteria might be and so it isn't ever 'off'. Now that might not be quite true, but then off milk is yogurt? You'll get what I mean when you've watched some more videos and read stuff. Basically I think like with sauerkraut it is nearly always safe but you easily know when it isn't.

Sauerkraut is also very straightforward, but does need a bit more care with the ratio of salt used - again though you can tell when it's wrong.

[smallblueplanet]

SBP I love using kimchi and have thought about trying to make it but then worried about the salt for health reasons .
I have seen kefir but not tried it-yet. Interesting re IBS, stress lately seems to upset me that way though don't know if it's actually IBS or just me being odd.
I'm shopping today so will gather my ingredients for my starter.

What jar is best? I have jam jars but they arnt proper screw tops. Would kilners be better? And how big?

I researched IBS symptoms and 'treatments' when the OH had a really bad 'attack' coupled with migraines (which I think were made worse by getting 'rebound' headaches from taking too many ibuprofen/paracetamol tablets to keep the headaches at bay). The doctor was pretty useless and prescribed Protein Pump Inhibitor tablets (nasty things) and aspirin(not great for sensitive stomachs).

Of course the gut and the head are closely linked. So anyway, I read lots on gut microbiome, although there wasn't anywhere near as much info available back then. Just found this website that talks all about Gut-Brain Axis dysfunction:
https://aboutibs.org/what-is-ibs/ibs-and-your-gut/
https://aboutibs.org/what-is-ibs/psy...tress-and-ibs/ (about stress)

And so I read up lots on kefir and some on fermented foods and IBS.

ps I think on a previous incarnation of the forum I did start a 'fermented foods' thread, but it wasn't that popular anyway and has disappeared.

[Snoop Puss]

Brilliant, sbp. Thanks for starting this thread. I found this one that I started, but I never pursued it:
https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...ermented-foods

Much as I like to do things as cheaply as possible, I think I'll need to buy some specialist equipment for fermenting foods. I'll have a scoot about and get back to you in a day or two with some questions.

Containergardener, anyone else, you fancy joining in?

[smallblueplanet]

Hi Snoop Puss

Thinking about a question you asked (or maybe it wasn't you) about the salt content of the foods. I think two things, one that often the salt is used to remove liquid from the ingredients and mostly gets rinsed off and two one doesn't eat that much at a time. We are conscious of salt content in our food and so mostly use low sodium salt, but I think that there have recently been suggestions that salt isn't the main bad guy in health problems and so we just be moderate with it in our food.

We make our kimchi, although we haven't for a while as it's more time consuming than sauerkraut, using a version of this vegetarian Kimchi recipe.

https://www.maangchi.com/recipe/chaesik-kimchi Had fun sourcing gochu-gara, I like to use authentic ingredients!

We get lazy now and buy this version from Ocado which is raw. I laugh at lots of the fermented foods you see being sold in supermarkets as they are often pasteurised and so all the good bacteria has been killed!


PS I can't think of any particular 'specialist' equipment you might need to start with, other than cabbage!

[Snoop Puss]

Thanks for the link, sbp. I think the most difficult thing for me to source will be the glutinous rice flour. Rice flour I can get easily (and the chilli flakes, surprisingly, lockdown did wonders for the availability of spices in Spain, people started experimenting more at home), but glutinous rice flour I think will be beyond me.

[Containergardener]

Snoop Puss . Yup , I'm in.

smallblueplanet . Excellent I shall sit and have a read of everything later.
Also what recipe do you use for your sauerkraut?
I have a cabbage already to go.

[smallblueplanet]

Snoop Puss . Yup , I'm in.

smallblueplanet . Excellent I shall sit and have a read of everything later.
Also what recipe do you use for your sauerkraut?
I have a cabbage already to go.

We just base the recipe on the size of the cabbage, if it's a 'big' savoy then all cabbage. If it's a small cabbage - most are teeny nowadays, we went to Egypt last year and their cabbages were bigger than footballs! - then we add some carrot.

Basically we shred the cabbage (and carrot) in our food processor.
Weight the amount and add 2% by weight of salt (we prefer pink or rock salt but I'm not sure it matters, except for not high iodine salt).
Put the cabbage in a big (stainless steel) mixing bowl. Add the salt and mix.
Maybe let it sit for a bit, but scrunch it all together for about 10-15 minutes. Then pack it tightly into a big jar.
It needs some way for the fermenting gases to escape, which is why you see jars with rubber 'nippled' lids. Maybe okay with a loose lid? But you need something to keep the shredded cabbage under the liquid that is produced else you'll get 'bad' mold forming. We started with a big pebble! Now we have glass weights. Leave for a couple of weeks.
That's the real basics.

Check out this link it's relatively straightforward:
https://www.fermentandpickle.com/pos...t-calculations

[smallblueplanet]

For those worried about 'wild fermentation' and getting it wrong and causing illness. Sandor Katz is your man (the Godhead!), he says the USDA have never had a case of 'illness' caused by fermented food.

There's some really good youtube vids of him talking about fermented food, highly recommended. He started the fermented food revolution!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQMJ...PxJVycQ1Ekhqyu

[Containergardener]

Great. Does it matter what sort of cabbage? Are some better taste wise in these than others?

[smallblueplanet]

Great. Does it matter what sort of cabbage? Are some better taste wise in these than others?

I don't think so, as you can ferment most vegetables. I think it involves the amount of liquid needed to keep the veggies under the salted liquid? I think you can add 'liquid' as long as you keep the salt ratio aroung 1.5%-2% by weight.

Watch the video above. I think it then runs into him making sauerkraut. He really is great!

[Containergardener]

Perfect thanks

[Snoop Puss]

Thanks for the link, smallblueplanet. He comes across as a plain-talking guy. Really helpful.

[smallblueplanet]

Snoop Puss

Here's a run down in pics of just how straight forward and easy making kefir is. But you need to get kefir grains from someone obvs. I meant to say, one of the reasons for making your own beside knowing what is in it and cost is that shop bought kefir has to be 'reproducible'. So it has limited bacteria in it as the kefir must always be the same product. Whereas when you make your own there's a huge variety of good bacteria.















You can stand the full bottle out on the side to keep fermenting if it's not done enough.
Then the jar with the milk and kefir grains and the bottle of kefir go into the fridge. That's it. There are some very complicated and overly specific videos on the net, I must have watched them all, including the ones about not letting the kefir grains touch metal! I use a teaspoon to transfer them but for the sake of surety I do it real quick, the grains hardly touch the spoon, lol.

[Snoop Puss]

Wow! That looks a lot more straightforward than I imagined.

Mind you, I've just looked up the price of kefir grains here. A lot more than they used to be... Almost the cheapest way to get ones that are what they say they are (dreadful reviews on Amazon) is to buy them with a kombucha SCOBY. I might be going all-in on fermented foods and drinks at this rate!

[smallblueplanet]

Wow! That looks a lot more straightforward than I imagined.

Mind you, I've just looked up the price of kefir grains here. A lot more than they used to be... Almost the cheapest way to get ones that are what they say they are (dreadful reviews on Amazon) is to buy them with a kombucha SCOBY. I might be going all-in on fermented foods and drinks at this rate!

My Spanish is limited to hola, but eBay seem to suggest that you can buy from the UK, the top result says they'll ship for free?

https://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_from...Leche&_sacat=0

You're looking for Hongo de Kéfir de Leche

OH drinks kombucha, but normally flavoured. Can't say I'm keen but I did look into making it, seemed a bit too much pfaff but I can't really remember. So we buy it when it's on offer.