Not as Green as it appears.

[pigletwillie]

Another thread made me realise that not everything painted green is and neither is everything painted bad for the environment bad.

The subject involved coir blocks (coir being a by product of coconut palms). To me, whilst coir is a sustainable product, shipping it here to use as a peat substitute isnt, but on the other hand using reclaimed peat (from water treatment works) is sustainable and Green but digging up peat bogs isnt.

Hopefully from that you can see my point.

Another supposed "Green project" was at Fiddlers Ferry power station in Warrington. I helped install a bio fuel plant there to enable it to burn the waste from olive oil production and nut shells. Both are sustainable by-products and seem to have excellent Green credentials. However the former is shipped from Greece and the latter from Africa. The cost was far more than burning coal and due to the lower burn temperature, gave off more carbon per ton. So in reality it cost more and was worse for the environment.

I whole heartedly support Green issues but not all Green things are as Green as the ideas or arguements behind them.

Any other experiences.

[Two_Sheds]

Absolutely, PW.
eg. "recycling" plastic bottles by shipping them round the world to be dealt with in India or wherever, is not green.
Buying less plastic in the first place would be better.

[Flummery]

How I agree! Our local 'green' person who writes a column the local paper on self sufficiency, buys bottled water. I just don't get it?

[smallblueplanet]

...The subject involved coir blocks (coir being a by product of coconut palms). To me, whilst coir is a sustainable product, shipping it here to use as a peat substitute isnt, but on the other hand using reclaimed peat (from water treatment works) is sustainable and Green but digging up peat bogs isnt.

Hopefully from that you can see my point.

I've heard the coir arguement before, but what happens to the waste if it doesn't get shipped here? Does anyone know. Also is it a case of 'filling' a returning ship or are they making 'special' journeys?

[pigletwillie]

In Sri Lanka we saw it kept in big piles to fire kilns that dried out the coconut flesh into copra. Other uses were fabrication into mats, brushes and rope all of which could be bought for a few pence.

I suppose if we use their coir they will have to start importing coal to dry their copra!!!!!!

[smallblueplanet]

I suppose if we use their coir they will have to start importing coal to dry their copra!!!!!!

Lol! Nothing is ever straightforward! I shall probably keep using coir in compost as a lesser evil than peat, but its always good to be aware of 'alternate views' to the 'party line'.

[Alison]

It was an awful lot easier before I worried about these things, takes forever to buy anything these days, weighing up what is good and bad but then again, suppose that probably causes me to buy less which is definitely a good thing - both for my pocket and the environment.

[NOG]

Why are Big Business all going green........
Cos they can make money.
The councils are using it to cheat the figures.

Councils have to reduce the amount that they put in landfill or they get "fined" by cenrtal govenment.

Now I remember our council used to take garden waste out of your bin and dump it on your drive....but now they activily collect it, weight it and claim that this is tonage that they have prevented for being land filled. The make this into "compost" allong with the grass cutting from the parks that they used to compost any way and then sell it back to us.

What they should do is promote composting at home.....you don't need the Lorrys, admin and staff.

[JanieB]

OMG. I am on our local councils "Working Party for Climate Change". I didn't choose this, I was volunteered for it by our local council. I have so many issues about the "green" campaign. A lot of it is so ungreen as to be unbeleivable.

Low energy life bulbs actually cost more in energy to produce than a normal bulb uses in its lifetime, they also need to be taken back to a distributor to be disposed of and you have to pay for this.

If you want dimmer switches you can only have them with the (soon to be compulsory)new circuits. The new circuits are expensive and require specialist installation.

For: Plastic bags are not evil. The overuse of them is. Reuse them.

Read the new planning laws to come into effect in April. The world, at least in the UK, has gone completely mad.

I've had a major learning curve in the last 4 months. I always was greenish but I live in this very material world and not a fantasy one.

[Paulottie]

Its a bit like cutting down rainforests to produce palm oil for biodiesel or extract metals to produce solar panels. I don't even want to go into insulation production, the extra materials needed to meet regulations and the pros and cons of hermetically sealing a house (or the idiocy of then demanding vented windows).

The final irony is that the marketing men are managing to turn crawling from the global disaster they have created into another industry. 'Its OK' says the Government 'we'll tax you out of the crisis!'

Really it is not a fantasy to spend you life trying to avoid being sucked into the material frenzy. You can't completely withdraw to the caves, but I think we could value things more and not just dispose of them for a newer look every ten minutes. I'm just a Womble at heart I weep at the tip!( Last time there were two nearly new kids bikes in the skip.) It is a fine line i tread not to turn this place into steptoes yard I think its just not about paying to jump on the next green bandwagon but an attitude, a philosophy of living. Unfortunately it is not only now more expensive to travel the green road it is often harder work. eg leafmould, topsoil from stacked turfs and charcoal make an excellent potting compost. I can collect all those with just my wheelbarrow and foresight!

[Flummery]

As you all say, it's a matter of using what we have wisely and not throwing away so much. (Freecycle is good for this). Mr Flum is still using the nails his grandfather collected. On his walk to and from work he would pick up any discarded wood or broken furniture (horrified Grandma by bringing a whole chair home once!) and take them to bits. He re-used the wood where possible and put the rest on the fire. All the nails he put into a jam jar which is still being dipped into! I like that philosophy. I never knew this grandad but I feel I'd have really got on well with him.

[lainey lou]

Lol, I love you lot! I so agree with what you are all saying.
Didn't know about the low energy light bulb(!) thing, aren't they phasing out the old type?
Has the world gone mad?

[HeyWayne]

Toyota Prius is a prime example. Factor in production and it's apparently not as "green" as it makes out...

[Paulottie]

Yes, lainey lou, I think it probably has. Yet all us eccentric re-users- previously considered mad- are now the sane ones.....'The lunitics are taking over the assylum, da-hah'(great tune!)

[Alison]

Low energy life bulbs actually cost more in energy to produce than a normal bulb uses in its lifetime, they also need to be taken back to a distributor to be disposed of and you have to pay for this.

This is not actually true, there is very little difference in production energy and replacing ordinary light bulbs with energy efficient ones could reduce electricity consumption by at least 2% (equivalent to one nuclear power station) by 2020 due to their lower useage during operation. This is why they are quite rightly banned in some countries and should be here also.

They cost more to buy initially than a normal incandescent bulb but in their longer lifetime will save users about £36 per bulb. One of the concerns used to be about mercury content, they now contain far less than they used to and in summer 2007, the EU Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE) Directive is implemented – requiring the mercury to be removed and the bulbs recycled.

There's a lot of dodgy rummours about which really don't help and also a lot of duff info. Some of the other comments (in particular re the Prius) have a very valid point but it's green credientials are based on what their manufacturer says rather than general scientific evidence.