Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall tonight 9pm

[yoanbob]

Im with paul to an extent, outdoor reared and free range arnt allways what you think, regulations on british organic are much stricter we buy british organic rather than free range, but if 50 % of the pop started to buy only free range it would be a big improvment on how things are now.

[HeyWayne]

Whatever happens needs to be driven by cultural shift.

As I see it, it's a similar story to the campaign that Jamie Oliver had regarding school dinners. The state they were in just prior to his campaign was the result of decades of apathy and ignorance towards the subject and will not be changed overnight. Cultural shift takes time unfortunately, and ultimately is driven by consumer demand.

Look back only 25 years and drink driving was not considered as culturally unacceptable as it is now, yet as each generation educates the next things improve. However, that education has to continue for the shift to maintain momentum.

From a marketing point of view the very fact that supermarkets and alike are all keen to be seen to promote "organic" or "environmental" produce is proof that they (although they don't like to admit it) are driven by customer demand (it's what marketing is all about - depite what Henry Ford said), and from a personal point of view I think is encouraging. Cost is the common denominator unfortunately, and will always be referred to, but value is held in much greater regard than many people let on or realise.

It'll take time, but the revolution is coming!

[piskieinboots]

what comes first - the chicken or the egg? we've pretty much all of us switched to free range eggs now, the chicken can't be far behind surely

[HeyWayne]

what comes first - the chicken or the egg?

That's easy to answer:

[piskieinboots]

HA - ain't that the truth

[carlseawolf]

As wayne just said consumer habits take a long time to evolve and it takes campainers in the know to hilight what is going on and bring it to the public notice as it takes many years for the supermarkets to change eating habbits and the way food is made.
As one persons sloggon on here is - if it taste like chicken eat chicken - sums up what the general public see on this subject , because if there not educated that a cheap chicken taste rubbish and a free range / organic has more flavour then they will never change or want to change there buying habits as they know no diffrence so see only pound signs.
this problem is not the fault of the farmers or in part not even the supermarkets as they are starting to change and getting free range / organic stock on there shelves but of the consumer who has the power to change this but are reluctant to pay the extra for it.
the same reacuring topic seam to crop up about not been able to afford these chickens and the single mum on the program is even using this as an excuse not to change her habits .
I myself was in the same position of been a single dad with two kids after my divorce and i was quite well off compared to my life now,
here's a break down of what i got as a single parent !

benifit - i adult 2 children = £135
rent = all paid for you
council tax = all paid
school dinners = all paid
under fives = milk tokens
child benifit = £ 20 ish

and on top a possible CSA payment each month

and she can not afford the extra !

as a single parent i gardened to pass the time , now i do it to provide the extra food for the family as this frees are food budject up for better meat and treats that we don't normally get - are food money is £90 a week and that feeds 2adults , three teenagers and 2 year old twins that equaits to £2 per person per day and i will be changing to free range / organic if it means a better diet for my children.

[Hazel at the Hill]

Mr Sainsbury wrote me a nice letter this morning:

'Over the next few weeks you may see programmes on the television or read articles in the press about the farming practices used for chicken and egg produciton. We take our responsibilities for animal welfare very seriously as we know that for our customers it is not only the quality of what we sell that is importandt but also how these products are sourced.

Currently all the fresh and frozen checkens and eggs we sell are British and we are one of the few retailers who can make this claim. We also sell chicken and eggs that are produced in a variety of ways from Assured Food Standards (Red Tractor) to Free Range and Organic. The enclosed leaflets explain the key differences in the production methods for each.

In December we were delighted to win two out of three awards that the charity Compassion in World Farming presents to the major supermarkets for their commitment to the welfare standards of farm animals. This includes fish, meat, poultry, milk and eggs.

Whilst we are pleased that our commitment to farm animal welfare has been recognised, we are constantly looking to raise both minimum standards and to lead the introduction of new standards. You may have seen in the press that we plan to stop using eggs that are produced by caged hens by 2010, and we have been presented with a Good Egg Award by Compassion in World Farming in recognition of this commitment and the work we have done in developing Woodland Eggs. In addition we are working closely with both the RSPCA and the Woodland Trust to make significant improvements in our chicken production methods.

We always look to provide our customers with a range of products that they can trust, and will continue to work towards improving the way in which we, alongside our suppliers, can further improve standards.'

As HW says, unfortunately it does take time to have a cultural change in these things (I saw a Parky interview with Eric Morecombe from the mid 70's and he was smoking a pipe all through the interview, discussing his health and heart problems...) and as I have stated before, the issue of animal welfare is TOTALLY in the hands of us, the consumers (supply and demand and all that) - and with acurate information being given on packaging there is no excuse for anyone to buy any food originating from cruelly reared animals.

[yoanbob]

sounds like mr sainsbury is getting a bit worried that he cant buy enough free rangers to feed the new demand

[andrewo]

What is really insulting is that Somerfields stated that their customers wouldn't be interested in organic or ethical meats! Wow! How can they state that? How can super markets say there is no demand? I have worked in abbatoirs, when I was much younger, and have seen the state some of the birds came in - most of them were dead, so there was no surprise when the statistics stated that 45 million chickens a year are culled before harvesting (how many die in transit?). We would deal with up to 200-300 boxes of them an hour and in my quota there was roughly a third of them dead, which back then went into dog food.

The big boned woman annoys my wife, she is so dogmatic, when she was asked, "If you were a chicken where would you prefer to live?" and she said there was no difference as they ended up dead. An organic chicken ranges from £5.50 upwards and as someone stated here, and as Hugh pointed out, you can get more than one meal out of it. I was also disgusted how some of the people on the programme didn't pick their chickens clean or all meat - my Mum would have kicked me out as a child if I ever wasted food like that! Beggars belief.

I don't think good eating has anything to do with class. I was brought up working class and meat was a treat, we made it go as far as possible. I think these food deals reinforce a lazy attitude to food and livestock.

[johnty greentoes]

I agree with Hazel and many others - the £ in our pocket dictates how the retailers behave. We stop damanding certain things, they stop supplying it. This is what Hugh and Co know and are aiming to influence us to change our ways.

Have really enjoyed seeing the positive contribution of those not so well off among us. Is there a thread here about surviving financially and eating heartily - many could benefit?

Don't forget the concluding show tonight at 9 on C4.

[lozza_9]

I have really enjoyed this programme, as I have 2 chickens myself looking at the poor chickens stuck in the shed with no daylight really upset me. My chickens have a good life and are very happy.
I can understand the lady on the programme who says about the 2 for £5 chickens are in her budget BUT I am on a budget and would prefer to eat chicken which taste better.

Loz

[sewer rat]

[QUOTE=Hazel at the Hill;159797]Mr Sainsbury wrote me a nice letter this morning:

[I] You may have seen in the press that we plan to stop using eggs that are produced by caged hens by 2010, and we have been presented with a Good Egg Award by Compassion in World Farming in recognition of this commitment and the work we have done in developing Woodland Eggs. In addition we are working closely with both the RSPCA and the Woodland Trust to make significant improvements in our chicken production methods.

QUOTE]

If Mr Sainsbury was really commited he could have only free-range or organic birds in his stores in 6 months time, but this would cost a lot of money.
I think that what the programme shows most of all is that the intensive chicken farming industry is not run by the farmers for themselves but by and for the supermarkets - as indeed is far too much of UK agriculture. The supermarkets have for too long being dictating what we buy and how much we pay for it. Now they are being asked to account for their actions and they are running scared. I don't think HFW, Jamie (the trailer for his Friday nighyt prog looks brill) et al can really change the way the great british public buy their food, but every little helps and big oak trees from llittle acorns grow - what is required following on from these programmes is a continued campaign to decrease the intensive farming in this country - not just of chickens but of pigs (who are often forgotten about). And while we're on the subject of intensive farming, isn't it about time that the Eu stamped down on Johnny Foreigners practices which fly in the face of EU agreed standards - oops sorry, forgot, only the UK actually pay any attention to what the EU says or does.........

[Two_Sheds]

Have really enjoyed seeing the positive contribution of those not so well off among us. Is there a thread here about surviving financially and eating heartily - many could benefit?

I have about £35 a week to spend on all my food, clothes, toiletries, Xmas presents, bike repairs, everything. I think I count as "not well off".

I don't eat any meat ... it is simply too expensive. I can't afford organic veg, so I grow my own.
Eating cheap meat is not a right. You don't even have to eat it to survive; nobody will starve if chicken goes up in price.
If it was dearer than it is now, you'd still buy it, right? Just like people continue to buy beer, fags and petrol when the prices go up.

[Snadger]

I have just been to Tesco's and bought my first ever free range chicken!!!

It better be good, as it was approximately twice the price of other similar sized birds!

Nearly fell into the trap of buying an organic chicken though! After giving it some thought I decided an organic chicken could still be intensively reared , 17 birds to the square metre,in a stinking barn with lights on most of the time, the only difference being it's food was organic!

Even bought free range eggs as well........... not only free range but locally produced free range!!(big pat on the back smillie!)

Looking forward to final installment tonight!

[carlseawolf]

the experiment that hugh is doing at the moment i can see only one problem in that he has 2000 plus intensivly reard chickens that will be culled in 39 days but he can't sell them to anyone as that would make him the same as the farmer , or throw them away after slaughter as that would be even worse and undo all his good work so where does he plan to put these birds as i don't think he will be able to rear them as free range after the program.