HUGH'S programe

[moggssue]

Well, I can see the chickens at the farm clucking around in their field so they are free range but now I'm worried they're not organic! Since the farm is going internet only anyway, maybe I ought to change to supermarket organic where I know they really are, if that makes sense!

[yoanbob]

only if they are soil ass. certified and I would still suport your local farm internet only or not, just ask them, somone said on another thread, that some farms are producing to organic standards but because the slaughter house isnt certified they only say free range. just ask.

[moggssue]

Consider the question put! I'm glad I came along today!! And I like Proteas idea as well, asking in restaurants can only raise even more awareness of what we (the customers??!) want .

[carlseawolf]

i thank you all for your input on this poll and i don't think it matters to much how you change your eating habits as long as we get the budjet birds of the shelves and out of the system.
buying a higher priced standard bird rather than 2 for£5 is aleast a step in the right direction if free range / organic is not to your budjet .

[SueA]

I don't eat meat but only buy free range eggs even though they're more expensive as I can't bear the thought of the poor hens in those battery cages.

[sewer rat]

Organic (soil association) is like free range only better they have organic food, play out on organic land (no pestacides) and have more room and more enrichment as well as not being given drugs just in case they only have drugs if they really need them. It doesnt nessisarily follow that because you buy at a farm shop they are organic or free range, if they are either they would say, a lot of farm shops are intensive farms they just dont tell you unless you ask.

I think this poll is great it will show how many of us will switch, I thought it wouldnt affect anyone who wasnt already eating free range but it looks like I was wrong.

I have seen organic chicken nuggets at asda.

Point of issue here - who says that organic chickens have more room and more enrichment than free range ? The Soil Association ? And who died and made them God - they are only one (admittedly the largest) of about 40 organic associations in the UK. If you don't adhere to their standards, you can bet your ass you will find another recognised association that will stamp you up. In addition, it is unlikely that any farm shops that sell you chicken are on intensive rearing units - the great British public are seriously not welcomed onto these places, similarily with intensive pig units.

[yoanbob]

ah but there is a farm shop in huddersfield that sell intensive chicken and other meat, they have non organic outdoor reared pigs only, everything else is shipped in and packaged on site, and I have heard of others, they dont have to do anything other than sell products that a farm somwhere has produced to be called a farm shop.

[SarzWix]

Yes, there's a Farm Shop between Keighley & Huddersfield which sells bacon & ham which is Danish! & careful reading of the label shows MSG in the ingredients list!!
Also, their chickens definately aren't raised on site, and have no 'Free Range' or anything on the labels which I'm sure they would if they could! Whereas the beef, lamb, pork etc is listed on a board which farm it came from. So I don't buy chicken from them at all, I get it from the supermarket - Organic if we can afford it, Free Range if not.

[Snadger]

Yes, there's a Farm Shop between Keighley & Huddersfield which sells bacon & ham which is Danish......................

They should be reported then!

[sewer rat]

Maybe I should have worded my reply slightly differently - what I meant was you will not find a farm shop on an intensive chicken or pig farm. I fully agree that some people are taking advantage of the "farm shop" myth and are exploiting the public, but then as HFW pointed out - we, the great british public, need to ask more questions about our food and where it comes from and how it is reared / grown, and vote with our wallets / purses.

[beefy]

A few things to take into consideration

If we go down the free range /organic route there is not enough land in England to supply the nation with food . Add to this more and more arable land is being used to grow "energy crops" ie wheat and oil seed rape for bio fuels.

1 -If this happens who goes without?

2 -Can imported food be called organic due to the number of "food miles" it has travelled and the carbon footprint to get it here?

3 - Can the imported food reach the same standards as the home grown food?

If these simple things can't be sorted out then Organic /Free range become the preserve of the rich / better off and you will still get your 2 for a fiver chickens .

Before I get slated - I agree with what Hugh is trying to do .I applaud channel 4 for showing these programmes , also BBC3 who are rerunning the Kill it Cook it Eat it series.
I won't go into the debate of wether you should eat meat or not - thats your own individual right, but if you do you should know where and how its produced and how it has been treated.
Supermarkets will buy at the lowest price and sell at the higest price they think their customers will pay. The only way to change whats on the shelves is for people to turn away from the 2 for a fiver offers and buy the organic / free range product.
I'm not going to stand up and tell the single mother of 3 that she cant buy 2 for a fiver. I personally think thats better than going to the "Kant Find Chicken "

[Alison]

In answer to your comments, Beefy,

1 - We all need to be eating less meat - many of us have already stated that we chose to eat a smaller amount of better quality meat than loads of rubbish stuff so this is a way forward. Nobody need do without if we're all a bit less greedy.

2 - Food miles really has nothing to do with being organic, yes it's an important issue and I'd chose local wherever possible but not really relevant to this discussion. We happen to eat organic chicken as that's what our local farm shop sells (they're not bred there but I know where she gets them from and it's not far and perfectly genuine) but would buy freerange off her if she sold them and I could be similarily happy with the rearing

3 - depends what you're talking about, some things store better than others whereas for some veg, for example, I believe the flavour reduces by the seconds

There's a lot of other things that are important but Hugh is just trying to highlight one issue and hopefully make peope more aware of their food and the effects on the animal and themselves.

[Two_Sheds]

I'm a veggie, but eat free range eggs (never battery, even if they are free/bought by mistake)

OH is a carnivore, until Hugh's prog he never listened to me about free range. His eyes have now been opened. He said he wouldn't even know if the chook was battery/broiler, as the label doesn't tell you that. Of course it doesn't, I think the supers are actually quite ashamed of their product, why else would they neglect to tell the truth on the label?
A lot of those labels need overhauling...they are designed to look good, ie smiling farmers, blue skies, open fields... when the product is intensively reared in appalling conditions.
OH also said that the farmers are following the law ... they weren't doing anything illegal. So maybe the law needs changing? Ban battery/broiler houses?

[sewer rat]

Just returning to Beefy's point 2, and Alisons response.
I agree that food miles should have nothing to do with whether or not something can be classed as organic. So can anyone explain to me why the Soil Association are trying to prevent organic produce that is imported to the UK from abroad being classed as organic. What the Soil Association is about is the promotion of organically produced food and all that entails, not about anything else. I am not a subscriber to the SA but know quite a few producers certified through them, and they are not happy that their subscriptions are being used to wage a war against food miles.
I think I'm beginning to sound very anti S.Association,maybe I am, maybe I can see into the future where the SA will become a gov't department and then they can spout whatever they want and producers will have to jump through hoops.

[beefy]

1 - We all need to be eating less meat - many of us have already stated that we chose to eat a smaller amount of better quality meat than loads of rubbish stuff so this is a way forward. Nobody need do without if we're all a bit less greedy.

And if consumption still exceeds supply what then ration books?

2 - Food miles really has nothing to do with being organic, yes it's an important issue and I'd chose local wherever possible but not really relevant to this discussion. We happen to eat organic chicken as that's what our local farm shop sells (they're not bred there but I know where she gets them from and it's not far and perfectly genuine) but would buy freerange off her if she sold them and I could be similarily happy with the rearing

So if local is not available you would be happy to buy an "organic Free range chicken " airfreighted in from China so it's nice and fresh for you?

3 - depends what you're talking about, some things store better than others whereas for some veg, for example, I believe the flavour reduces by the seconds

Im talking about the produce being produced to the same no sorry the exact same standards and with the same regulations as the British farmer has to produce them to

There's a lot of other things that are important but Hugh is just trying to highlight one issue and hopefully make peope more aware of their food and the effects on the animal and themselves.

Thats right .These are exactly that - other important issues .
Free range /organic chichen and the conditions that they are reared in is just the start .What I have highlighted above are some of the possible outcomes if the whole country goes organic /free range and large areas of arable land are diverted to bio fuel production and I think need to be brought to peoples attention.Different things will come higher on different peoples agendas some may care about airmiles some dont , some may care about production standards oversees some may not . All I'm saying is I do and I am asking others to do so to.