This makes for interesting reading...

[everdream78]

Did anyone see the report on BBC tonight on the same story? Don;t mind admitting that I sat here and sobbed when I saw the poor little albatross chick unable to feed as it had a plastic hook stuck in it's throat. They also showed speeded up footage of half an hour's clean up on one section of beach - the pile of plastic they gathered was nearly 6 feet tall!

I despair of the human race sometimes, I really do

[Paul Wagland]

Jeannine tells me that each year in the UK we throw away food worth £400 per person. That must be something like 25% of the food we eat!

Things like this need legislation - the work of the good souls among us just isn't enough.

[daleclarke]

Nope

I wish they'd introduce it here but Colchester Council isn't exactly progressive. I think I'll write to them this afternoon - you never know who you're going to reach.

It would even be better if we had weekly recycling collections and bi-weekly black bag collections, rather than the reverse (which is what we have now).

Paul

Check their recycling targets I think it has to be 40% by 2010 (Should be 80%, like Germany) but they should be well above 20% by now. If not let them know of their obligations as they will be fined heavily if not achieved and it will be you the council tax payers who will have to foot the bill. Our local council are running scared now, as they are not reaching their interim targets and I think they have seen the amount of the fines could be, so now they are having consultation evenings and such like, asking for our views.

I am afraid MP's and such like are scared to death of making radical decisions about waste, they all sit on the fence in case they do not get voted in next time, went to a council meeting about waste, they should of been the ones to be recycled as they were always going on about setting up a committee to look into it, more costs and even more pats on the backs.

Their biggest worrying is of course flytipping which if they made hugely expensive when getting caught, would soon give the message, not a £1000 but £10,000 and they have to remove it with a Shovel and wheelbarrow.

What gets me is that the Government always gives companies several years to reach targets if they said by the end of this year you have to provide 50% of your own energy and recycle 60% of your waste or you will be fined £1,000,000 pounds they would soon do it.

Furthermore, they can make supermarkets liable for plastic waste now, but do not, if they said to Tesco and others you had to accept all plastic waste back or collect it (free) and recycle it (Free) or face fines of £500,000 per incident, how long do you think it would take to change their packaging, years, months or weeks.

All new Buildings being built now can be eco friendly but they do not have to be for several years WHY? doesn't make sense. A local builder I know wanted to do it, would of cost only an extra £3000 at cost but the council would not give him permission as they do not want windmills all over the place, yet you can add a satellite dish that is of no use accept for the Sparrowhawks and electricity suppliers, unless your watching Gardening programmes of course ...

[daleclarke]

For a look at what comes out of councils here is a reply from my local ones to the 2000 government bill.

The new targets are certainly challenging but may not be robust. Although a small number of local authorities have achieved over 40% and up to 50% recycling + composting, these are not realistic average levels of recycling within the proposed time frame. To achieve an average recycling rate of over 40%, a significant number of authorities out of 380 in England will need to produce rates of recycling + composting of 60% or more. The partner authorities have significantly higher levels of social and economic deprivation than the authorities that have achieved very high recycling rates and will consequently find it difficult to achieve recycling rates in excess of 40%. A floor rate of 30% by 2015 may be reasonable as good practice becomes more widely adopted, but higher rates will necessitate local factors indicating that a greater investment in recycling is economically and socially advantageous.

and this from our local Environment committee in 2007 a communication strategy to talk C***

As part of the review of Waste Management and Recycling Members were presented with the Draft Communication Strategy. The Draft Communication Strategy covered the following keys points:-

1. Background to the review
2. Who the Select Committee should communicate and consult
3. How the communication and consultation should be carried out

A timetable, a draft communication and a draft questionnaire were attached to the Draft Communication Strategy for Members comments.

Members made some minor amendments to the above draft documents. It was agreed that draft questionnaire be amended and then signed off by the Chair.

Dr Andrew Craig (Tees Valley Joint Strategy Unit - Waste Management Development Officer) was in attendance at the meeting to present evidence on the Waste Strategy 2007 and Tees Valley Joint Working. Dr Andrew Craig's evidence covered the following keys areas:-

1. Waste Strategy drivers and targets
2. Waste and climate change
3. Regional Waste Board
4. Tees Valley Joint Waste Management Strategy
5. Powers for "incentive" schemes in Climate Change Bill
6. "Post 2020" - long term perspective
7. Recycling targets to 2020
8. Recycling comparison SBC v HBC

[Paul Wagland]

Dale Clarke for president!!

I agree completely that we need tougher action, and that it's difficult to see where that action will come from!

I was talking yesterday to an HGV-driver friend of mine who has been involved in transporting recyclable waste to Holland (from where much of Europe's waste is shipped to China!). He says drivers from other nations are always p1553d off that the UK is so bad at recycling - their central argument being something like "We've been hitting 40% targets for ten years now, just what is your problem exactly?!"

I love the idea of fining supermarkets for unnecessary packaging - they're making huge profits by cutting costs any way they can, and they should be made accountable for the damage they do to the environment. Otherwise, as you say Dale, the tax payer is footing the bill for them.

Ok, best I stop ranting now!

[daleclarke]

I have just done a quick search for my local council, they, upto last year are 2nd from bottom in my area with 18% (the worst is 11%, Shocking in 6 years) while one authority over the river has reached 35%. Figure it out...

I personally feel it is lack of commitment, tried to set up a local compost heap for our street as I hate the idea of a truck coming along and picking up Plastic bags(which are ripped open and stuffed in landfill) into the back. They said it would cost too much I showed them it was cheaper by sending a large shredder around and shredding the stuff and giving it back but alas they started giving me health & safety issues.

Hope today goes quicker as I have had a really bad rant day with cats and all! I hope my Mobile phone company rings me today as they will get both barrels.

It could be that i have not propagated anything yet as it is still too cold and WET!

[HeyWayne]

I think, that while councils can, and should do more to encourage reduction in waste, I have to say that the wider issue is public support. I know a whole lot of people who "can't be @rsed" with recycling probably more than I do who are pro-recylers.

I think, like drink driving, cultural shift unfortunately takes time. Smoking is on it's way, talking on mobiles whilst driving will follow shortly, and recycling attitudes are showing signs of movement.

Whilst each of us on here are likely pro-recyclers, we are still in the minority. It's how the likes of ASDA, Tescos and alike get away with the "it's customer demand" stance on the plastic bag issue (for now).

The culture in the UK is different to that of the "continent" - you only have to look at the drinking laws to see evidence of that. While comparing our performance on recycling to that of Europe is a good idea, it's not exactly comparing apples with apples.

[Nicos]

Interestingly I was talking with a friend about recycling kitchen waste and she was saying that her problem is knowing where to put the plastic/cardboard/glass/tins in her kitchen ( which is quite small) whilst she is cooking.(Her peelings go in a bowl for the compost)
Most of us only have room for a bin ( I am lucky enough to have a utility room and sink ) but most kitchens are not set up with recycling in mind, and in the middle of cooking, nipping out of the back door several times becomes a bit of a pain.
What do other people do to get round this??

[Paul Wagland]

I think, like drink driving, cultural shift unfortunately takes time. Smoking is on it's way, talking on mobiles whilst driving will follow shortly, and recycling attitudes are showing signs of movement.

The culture in the UK is different to that of the "continent" - you only have to look at the drinking laws to see evidence of that. While comparing our performance on recycling to that of Europe is a good idea, it's not exactly comparing apples with apples.

But drink-driving, smoking and using mobiles whilst driving have all been legislated against in recent years. Being a bad recycler has not, which is why so few people are getting it right. I honestly think the general public are naturally lazy and you have to force them to do what's in their own best interest.

Also, legislation like this is only unpopular when it is first introduced. Given time it becomes accepted, and people begin to ask for even stronger measures (such as a zero-unit drink-drive limit, or a ban on smoking in all public places).

It's true that our culture is different in many ways to some in Europe, but does that mean we have a right to shirk our responsibilities? Taking that to an extreme, you could say human rights violations are a Turkish cultural trait, but most of us would see it as a fair reason to slow their entry into the EU.

I was talking with a friend about recycling kitchen waste and she was saying that her problem is knowing where to put the plastic/cardboard/glass/tins in her kitchen... What do other people do to get round this??

With difficulty! We have six different bins and they all fill up too quickly. I have to do 'interim' recycling runs most weeks.

[HeyWayne]

But drink-driving, smoking and using mobiles whilst driving have all been legislated against in recent years. Being a bad recycler has not, which is why so few people are getting it right. I honestly think the general public are naturally lazy and you have to force them to do what's in their own best interest.

Also, legislation like this is only unpopular when it is first introduced. Given time it becomes accepted, and people begin to ask for even stronger measures (such as a zero-unit drink-drive limit, or a ban on smoking in all public places).

It's true that our culture is different in many ways to some in Europe, but does that mean we have a right to shirk our responsibilities? Taking that to an extreme, you could say human rights violations are a Turkish cultural trait, but most of us would see it as a fair reason to slow their entry into the EU.

Legislation was only recently introduced on smoking and mobiles true, but there has been a sway in public opnion on these matters for years following building pressure in the face of health warnings and campaigning. This over time altered public opinion on these issues before legislation was introduced.

A ban on all of these things doesn't change opinions and attitudes overnight, why else are police still arresting people for drink driving, or using mobile phones. Legislation can also alter public opinion for the worse. Look at the new proposed legislation regarding eating and drinking at the wheel for example, often seen as overkill my many, which can in turn undermine the work done previously regarding "sensible" legislation.

I work in a heavily legislated industry (construction), and there is increasing unrest and ill-feeling towards legislation as it is seen to create increased paperwork, cost and time implications on the industry and the knock on effect to the end user (hence the apparent inability to produce the £60,000 house).

I'm not saying we should shirk our responsibilities, far from it, but as comparisons go, we could do better.

[Paul Wagland]

Legislation can always go too far, I quite agree. But if it needs to be introduced urgently then it shouldn't have to wait for public opinion to change. Serious energy and oil shortages will be with us soon, probably within ten years, so we need our elected representatives to act sensibly right now.

Mobile phones have only been around in great numbers for ten or fifteen years, yet we already have legislation about using them. The state of the environment has been a hot topic since the industrial revolution - why is legislation on this subject taking so long? The answer, in my view, is that it goes against the interests of big business.

You make some very good points Wayne, but I don't understand why you feel we shouldn't compare our recycling rates to those in Europe. Are we traditionally more wasteful? Do we worry less about our countryside? What is the cultural characteristic that excuses us?

Edit - I hope you don't feel like I'm picking a fight! I think it's important to get people thinking about the issue though.

[HeyWayne]

Edit - I hope you don't feel like I'm picking a fight! I think it's important to get people thinking about the issue though.

Not at all old bean, you're a professional mass-debater though!

I just thought I'd have a go at this debating thing, see what it was like. I've decided, it's not for me.

Public opinion is how political parties get into government when all is said and done, so you can understand their reluctance to go against the perceived public opinion at any given time. Elected representatives are exactly that, representative of the masses, not the educated few.

[everdream78]

We've been having a community fun day here at my workplace today and the chaps from the Sustainable Communities section of the council were here.

Lovely people gave me three energy saving lightbulbs just for talking to them (yay!) but I quizzed them on the recycling plans for the city (some areas have been trialling a blue box for plastic but all of the city has black boxes for paper) and apparently the blue box scheme will not be rolled out across the city as, get this!, some streets have narrow footpaths and putting extra boxes out on said footpaths constitutes a health and safety risk for pedestrians!

*shakes head in frustration*

[jackie j]

Like most of you we also have separate bins and alternate weeks, bins and boxes everywhere but what they don't collect is plastic bottles other than milk containers so we take all other plastic bottles ( lemonade etc ) to the recycling centre ourselves yet the council tax goes up and up and they do less and less .

[Paul Wagland]

Not at all old bean, you're a professional mass-debater though!

Oi!

I just thought I'd have a go at this debating thing, see what it was like. I've decided, it's not for me.

You're good at it though! I wish we had more of it in this country, we need to be talking about this sort of thing. In France or Germany you can walk into any cafe or bar and chat to a complete stranger about current affairs - in this country you're lucky if you get past Corrie or the footie scores!