Poor dogs - angry HF

[OverWyreGrower]

Also what I have found helpful when you cant take your dog out in extreme weather conditions is to take him to the front porch and open the door so he can see for himself that it is not right to go out in these conditions, if you dont do this some dog owners may find that the dog hassles them all day for their walk, doing the above can help your dog understand why you arent going on a walk today.

Yup, I open the door and it's raining, and my 2 just sit on the door step, looking at it....

[jamesp]

Yup, I open the door and it's raining, and my 2 just sit on the door step, looking at it....

Very good, you see my point then, thanks for the feedback, I find it works in most cases, its quite similar to what would happen in the wild if they were in a den for example, the pack leader would view the conditions and get the pack back in the den until the conditions improved.

[OverWyreGrower]

I suspect mine are just wusses actually, since they're Boxers

Murphy is scared of leaves and Max doesn't like pigeons....

[jamesp]

I also noticed reading this thread the mention of wolf dogs.....

Wolf looking dogs like husky's, Norwegian Elk Hounds etc are fine and make good pets if you treat them properly like any dog, ie show them strong leadership, set rules boundarys limitations and plenty of exercise.

Wolf dogs though are a different matter entirely, generally a wolf dog is a cross between a German Sheperd and an actual WOLF!, the wolf dog will either have the traits of a wolf...ie shy and not good with people or the traits of a domestic dog, more happy around people and more social, neither of them though are easy to live with and you have to follow strict pack rules as they do not respond to strong leadership from a human as a domestic dog would, most experts believe this is because a domestic dog does not develop a brain any bigger than a 4 month year old wolf puppy and as a result a domestic dog is more open to follow a human as a leader and a wolf dog less so.

For example a Wolf would never let a human be a leader as a wolf is intelligent enough to know that any human no matter how tough is not equipped with the desired sensory skills for the survival of the pack...ie sense of smell, hearing, eyesight, hunting skills etc, if anyone says they have trained a wolf to live with them, they are either lying or have no house left!!!!

A friend of mine has a wolf dog and he knows Shaun Ellis (the wolfman, who has lived with wolves in the wild and lives with his own wolf pack in Coombe Martin in North Devon Zoo), Shaun is a very tough human being, but he has said that he cannot get a higher rank within his pack than mid position rank for the reasons i mentioned above, he was pack leader when they were young (he reared them from pups), but the more dominant ones took over as they got older.

[jamesp]

I suspect mine are just wusses actually, since they're Boxers

Murphy is scared of leaves and Max doesn't like pigeons....

Thats interesting, since boxers are one of the power breeds!!

No matter the breed though, if you aren't the pack leader, then dogs can become insecure as a result, they are much happier and content when they are the followers and have a strong leader.

Do you dogs have any other odd or strange behaviour? do they show aggression as other people or dogs approach you?

[bluemoon]

I think we're just talking about dogs that look wolf like rather that those with any real wolf ancestry (except ancient ancestry, of course) I too have always loved huskies, though I've never been lucky enough to own one. I do keep telling my OH that our next dog will be a husky, and he keeps pretending he hasn't heard me! While we're on the subject of dogs though (again), can anyone settle an argument and tell me what sort of dog is Scooby Doo? I reckon he's a Great Dane, but the rest of the family disagree......though they can't decide what he might be instead.

[OverWyreGrower]

While we're on the subject of dogs though (again), can anyone settle an argument and tell me what sort of dog is Scooby Doo? I reckon he's a Great Dane, but the rest of the family disagree......though they can't decide what he might be instead.

Scooby is definitely designed on a Great Dane!!

[OverWyreGrower]

Thats interesting, since boxers are one of the power breeds!!

No matter the breed though, if you aren't the pack leader, then dogs can become insecure as a result, they are much happier and content when they are the followers and have a strong leader.

Do you dogs have any other odd or strange behavoir, do they show aggression as other people or dogs approach you?

Hahaha! Power breeds!

Sorry, fell off my chair laughing....

Well, they're Boxers, they have lots of strange behaviour, all of it similar to other Boxers we know!

On a serious note, Max has nervous aggression when he is on his lead; but it's something he's had for a while and we've been working on it.

[jamesp]

Hahaha! Power breeds!

Sorry, fell off my chair laughing....

Well, they're Boxers, they have lots of strange behaviour, all of it similar to other Boxers we know!

On a serious note, Max has nervous aggression when he is on his lead; but it's something he's had for a while and we've been working on it.

Insecurity and fear can lead to fear aggression, its very important to stop that cycle, can you explain in more detail what actually happens?

I have helped many peoples dogs with aggression of various kinds, the good news is that aggression is very easy to correct in most cases.

This is normally what happens, your walking along with your dog, you see someone else coming with their dog, because of a previous bad experience you become tense, angry or nervous, YOU TRANSMIT that straight down the lead to your dog and make him react, if you stayed calm and assertive he would not react, if he did, a few correction techniques can stop that habit, basically also if you are the pack leader it is your job to protect him and not the other way round, so again, once you the leader this behaviour will stop.

Also, you mention you are working on it, what does that involve?

[lynda66]

Very good, you see my point then, thanks for the feedback, I find it works in most cases, its quite similar to what would happen in the wild if they were in a den for example, the pack leader would view the conditions and get the pack back in the den until the conditions improved.

can you come and tell my lot it's not suitable to go out then? cos they go to the door see its raining, then go to the back door in case that looks better, then the 2 cats have to try every window, just in case, then the big one goes out,(will come back hours later drenched) the dog looks out, then goes and sits under her coat hanger, cos she wants her mac on before she'll go out in it, shes out for 2 mins, then goes back to bed to sulk, and the kitten doesn't understand why i won't make it stop, and sits there meowing, till i get fed up with it and put her out .... then she comes back in 5 mins later and tells me off

honestly ...... they really don't get it.

[jamesp]

can you come and tell my lot it's not suitable to go out then? cos they go to the door see its raining, then go to the back door in case that looks better, then the 2 cats have to try every window, just in case, then the big one goes out,(will come back hours later drenched) the dog looks out, then goes and sits under her coat hanger, cos she wants her mac on before she'll go out in it, shes out for 2 mins, then goes back to bed to sulk, and the kitten doesn't understand why i won't make it stop, and sits there meowing, till i get fed up with it and put her out .... then she comes back in 5 mins later and tells me off

honestly ...... they really don't get it.

One of the biggest mistakes dog owners make is to treat a dog as a human, I might be wrong in this case, but from what you explained it seems like you treat your dogs as kids?....am i right?

Also the reason may be that you don't exercise your dogs enough.....how long do you take them for a walk and how often?

Dog without leadership, exercise and discipline can show neurotic types of behaviour.

I'm not having a go at you here, just trying to explain how these behaviours can come about if people treat their dogs as humans for some kind of substitute for a gap in their lives (lets be honest most of us bring dogs in our lives to fulfil our needs, ie baby substitute or unconditional love etc) what most people never consider is to try and fulfil the dogs needs in return.

There is nothing wrong in dressing your dog in clothes as long as you fulfil the animal in your dog and their needs as an animal and dog.

[lynda66]

i have only one dog, she's not neurotic, just mental i don't dress her in clothes, i just put a mac on when we go out in the rain lol she just knows she doesn't want to go out in the rain without it i actually think it's pretty intelligent, i put my coat on when i go out in the rain too ..... she just doesn't like getting wet, never has done ....... though she will go and dive in any muddy pond or river.

she is a jack russell cross brillo pad, she is my sons dog, aged 11 and a foot tall, she goes for a five mile run every morning, and spends as much time as she wants in the garden during the day. she's definitely a dog lol.

one of the reasons we started dressing her up, was the fact that my son was 7 and he thought it was fun for one thing, and for another, i have always believed that you should be able to do anything with a dog, so that it will just accept, and not get grouchy when you do something they don't like. and one of the easiest ways, is to dress them up, in my mind, it always makes a bond, that you are in charge, and they will do what you say, i have done this with every cat and dog i have ever had ....... none of them have ever so much as growled at a person.(almost every other jack russell i have ever met, i could cheerfully strangle)

no i don't treat them as human lol, i leave them to their natural reactions to it ..... if the dog wants to go out she tells me by running round in circles, if she has run out of water, she'll bring me her bowl, when she wants food, she will tell me, i'll ask what she wants, and she will go to the food cupboard (she gets fed once a day in the morning, and no i don't give her extra, though she does get chew sticks from the same cupboard, after we have had tea, and after she's been in the garden at night.

she knows what she wants and she will ask for it, if it's the right time, then she can have it, if not she can't, if i say no, she will stop, she definitely sulks though, and goes back to bed, she does everything she's told,(even if she does pretend shes deaf sometimes) has never bitten anyone and hasn't a nasty bone in her body. .... so now do you think she's neurotic?

it's the 2 cats that are funniest, i think it's really cute when they don't understand i can't stop the rain, i was hoping you'd have a solution .... they also sit when i tell them funnily enough, and the kitten is better at fetch than most dogs..... yes they are all my babies, but they aren't substitute children. and aren't all cats a little bit neurotic? or do i just have a strange effect?

[jamesp]

i have only one dog, she's not neurotic, just mental i don't dress her in clothes, i just put a mac on when we go out in the rain lol she just knows she doesn't want to go out in the rain without it i actually think it's pretty intelligent, i put my coat on when i go out in the rain too ..... she just doesn't like getting wet, never has done ....... though she will go and dive in any muddy pond or river.

she is a jack russell cross brillo pad, she is my sons dog, aged 11 and a foot tall, she goes for a five mile run every morning, and spends as much time as she wants in the garden during the day. she's definitely a dog lol.

one of the reasons we started dressing her up, was the fact that my son was 7 and he thought it was fun for one thing, and for another, i have always believed that you should be able to do anything with a dog, so that it will just accept, and not get grouchy when you do something they don't like. and one of the easiest ways, is to dress them up, in my mind, it always makes a bond, that you are in charge, and they will do what you say, i have done this with every cat and dog i have ever had ....... none of them have ever so much as growled at a person.(almost every other jack russell i have ever met, i could cheerfully strangle)

no i don't treat them as human lol, i leave them to their natural reactions to it ..... if the dog wants to go out she tells me by running round in circles, if she has run out of water, she'll bring me her bowl, when she wants food, she will tell me, i'll ask what she wants, and she will go to the food cupboard (she gets fed once a day in the morning, and no i don't give her extra, though she does get chew sticks from the same cupboard, after we have had tea, and after she's been in the garden at night.

she knows what she wants and she will ask for it, if it's the right time, then she can have it, if not she can't, if i say no, she will stop, she definitely sulks though, and goes back to bed, she does everything she's told,(even if she does pretend shes deaf sometimes) has never bitten anyone and hasn't a nasty bone in her body. .... so now do you think she's neurotic?

it's the 2 cats that are funniest, i think it's really cute when they don't understand i can't stop the rain, i was hoping you'd have a solution .... they also sit when i tell them funnily enough, and the kitten is better at fetch than most dogs..... yes they are all my babies, but they aren't substitute children. and aren't all cats a little bit neurotic? or do i just have a strange effect?

One of the biggest problems with humans is that thing we do called DENIAL....its a very strong negative energy we posses.

I was just trying to help you as you asked me to, if you don't want to accept my help, I can't help you.

You say your dog doesn't show neurotic behaviour, yet runs around in circles when it wants to go out, to me that is neurotic behaviour, it certainly isn't normal dog behaviour.

But you do say your dog is mental, is there any difference?, you see some bad behaviours we see in our dogs start off with behaviours that look cute or funny, but these are often the warning signs for worse bad behaviour.

Generally small dogs get away with bad behaviour as it looks cute or funny, when you see these other Jack Russells that are badly behaved it is never their fault but the owners, ive helped a number of Jack russells that have spent years being aggressive and helped them achieve a balanced state in a short space of time.

The daily exercise is good, but it has to be a structured walk / run simulating how they migrate with the pack in the wild, ie the human always in front and in charge and not just letting the dog do what it wants, ie if taking a dog out for an hour, first 5 mins let it sniff, pee poop etc, then 20 mins structured walk with the dog just behind you or level but not in front, then 5 mins pee, sniff and so on, if you have a dog that doesnt pee, sniff and poop to start with on a walk then walk for 15 to 20mins and start the cycle then.

It seems from what you have explained that you do show leadership at certain times, which makes you a partial pack leader, which often just confuses a dog even more as they dont know where they stand so to speak, you have to be consistent, its not easy being the pack leader, some people prefer to just ignore their dogs bad behaviour as its easier to do that or come up with a million excuses why they cant do it.

Cats arent really my area, but I have helped a few peeps with getting their dogs and cats to happily co-exist, with all animals though they read the way we feel by scent and energy, so if you are in a bad mood your cats and dogs will sense it even if you try and disguise your mood with body language, you cannot lie to an animal like you can humans, animals are 100% effective lie detectors, whether you sad, happy, nervous, angry, they will sense this and your mind set will definatley have an effect on your cat or dog, in fact they will mirror your state of mind.

To any social pack animal or any animal they only have two states of mind they see as strengths is calm assertive for leaders and calm submissive for followers, excitement, anger, nervousness, anxiety, frustration are all viewed as a weakness in the animal world and you dog will not respond to you if your are in any or those states of mind.

Your cats arent asking you to stop the rain, animals cannot rationalise no matter how much we would like to think so, they react to instinct, they may be looking at you when it is raining for guidance of what to do.

Humans have forgotten (apart from some tribes left in the world) how to communicate by scent and energy, but we communicate all the time to our animals that way, they are constantly reading our scent and energy, we produce different chemicals on our skin for example when we are scared, so animals can def smell fear and or sense it, in the wild an animal will never follow an unstable leader, we are the only species that will follow an unstable leader on the planet!

[lynda66]

i actually only meant in how to explain to a dog or cat that you can't turn the rain off, they definitely want me to stop it lol

she is only mental cos she lives with me for some reason my son is a bit mad too lol. (funny, but his mates see this as a good trait, as they do in me)

but anyway first thing in the morning, she gets let out to wee and poo in the garden ...... nothing worse than dog poo everywhere, and whilst having a run, it would be a pain in the neck to have to carry a bag full of poo. and she is 11 years old with 5 inch legs ..... no way on earth is she gonna get in front of him on a run lol. and they are only out for half an hour, so she's happy to wait till she gets home. she has been trained to go to the loo on command, so she won't go without being told to. which is very useful if you are somewhere she can't go .... and knowing that she needs to go helps to get her to a suitable place.

secondly she started doing the running round in circles thing cos she copied it of a neurotic collie i had when she was little, he had done that when i first got him at 18 months old, and he was happy, and it was his way of communicating he wanted to go out, so like i say she copied it, and actually you may not see it as normal, but she does, like if she needs a drink, bringing her bowl in ..... i reckon any way a dog has of communicating has to be a good thing, then why is it neurotic??.

when the weathers nice she spends as much time as she wants in the garden,she brings things i need, like trowels or scissors or her ball (ok she does have some needs, she needs rewarding for bringing me stuff) i can't walk too far, so it's not often i take her further than the corner shop, but i usually go at least once a day, or for a walk round the block. then son takes her out again before tea, and she goes in the garden at night.

so really i don't understand which bit is bad behaviour, she doesn't sit on the couch, she leaves something if i tell her, she doesn't chew, doesn't run away, and always comes back when off her lead fetches the things i ask her to, and communicates her needs ..... i wish all the dogs i'd ever had were as trainable as her ..... oh and she also passed the test with flying colours to be a pat dog .... she just won't go out in the rain without her coat on ...... and like i said previously ...... i put my coat on when it's raining, so she's only copying her pack leader

so how DO i get the cats to realise that if its raining at both doors and every window they've just visited ...... it isn't suitable to go out? and that one window is enough?

[jamesp]

I edited my previous post as you were writing your last one, near the bottom i explain a bit more ie about your cats and the rain and how animals communicate, i assume you do open the door or window so they can see, smell, sense what the weather is like?

Just to add, cats can be social pack animals or solitary, so they tend to be more independent than dogs, like I said cats aren't really my area of expertise, but my knowledge of dogs generally applies to all pack animals.

Running around in circles is not a way a balanced dog would communicate, your dog may have picked up on this habit as a way of communicating or more likely to manipulate, all I can tell you from what I have learnt is that this type of behaviour is not only neurotic, but it is actually bad for your dogs health as when under stress they produce more toxins in their body, as you dog is getting on a bit you might want to bear this in mind.

People often mistake that a dog is in a happy state when in fact a dog is not...ie a dog wagging his tail does not always mean he is happy....it can be the opposite.

I can only tell you what I know, its up to you whether you accept / believe that or not.

I am only trying to help, I have to ask or state things you may not like to hear, but its not designed to make you look in a bad light, just in hope that you will see the light!....so to speak...lol