Dog breeding

[tootles]

I have bred from our black lab. I decided to do it because she is a lovely family dog, she has a good show pedigree (no immediate relations but the same blood lines do occur in several pairings) I chose a gun dog with a good field trials pedigree. My aim was to breed good all round family and working dogs. My dog has a very low hip score and the dog I chose has a similarly low score, he had also been tested for genetic problems such as whether he was a carrier of a certain eye disease that labs can be prone to (most bred labs are just tested to see whether they have the disease) My dog was also tested. When we were finally happy that we were not going to create any problems we went ahead with the mating. Bella (my dog) had two puppies! They were both beautiful boys and the second was an emergency rush-to-the-vet-at-2am caesarean. They are perfect and were sold in a moment to people who wanted to be sure that they were getting a good dog. We have since had Bella 'done' as she clearly was not suited to motherhood.
Anyone who thinks that winning a dog show is more important than the welfare of the dog should not be allowed to keep animals.
I don't understand why the RSPCA has nothing to say on the matter??
Having said that, if anyone were to deliberatly breed a dog to be blind or deaf there would be an outcry. I read not so long ago about a genetically deaf couple who were having a child and said that they hoped it would be the same....Can you imagine them being prevented from breeding?

[bluemoon]

When we bought our black lab, you were exactly the sort of breeder that we were looking for - and were lucky enough to find - tootles. It's such a shame that all puppies don't start life this way.
As for the deaf couple starting a family, I have no problems with that. My own daughter is profoundly deaf, yet leads a normal life, has a challenging job for which she had to compete with other able-bodied people, drives, has just bought her first home and has marriage plans to an unaffected boyfriend. I'm sure she will make a great mother too. However, I can't ever see her wishing her disability on her own children; that's truly sick.

[HeyWayne]

I don't understand why the RSPCA has nothing to say on the matter??

Oh, they did. Their chief vet was vehemently against it, and Crufts as a show - he said as much on camera.

There was a meeting arranged during filming as a result of one woman (I forget her name) lobbying several different bodies. The meeting included said chief vet of the RSPCA, the Chief Exec of the KC and various other bodies.

Oh to have been a fly on the wall during that meeting.

[Capsid]

I don't understand why the RSPCA has nothing to say on the matter??

The head vet of the RSPCA, Mark Evans was on the show (and also this morning on BBC breakfast) and was quite vociferous I thought.

HeyWayne beat me to it.

ETA: On BBC breakfast there was even talk that Crufts would not be televised by the BBC.

[bluemoon]

Personally I'd hate to see Cruft's completely disappear. The chance to see different breeds at their best can't be matched. Having said that perhaps a condition of qualification should be a veterinary certificate stating that the dog has no obvious genetic faults ( though I accept that the dog could be a carrier). Perhaps this would make breeders strive for a healthy animal rather than one which is externally perfect with no regard for the hidden problems inside. Apparently there is no requirement to even show a vaccination certificate when entering a dog show.

[Polly Fouracre]

The head vet of the RSPCA, Mark Evans was on the show (and also this morning on BBC breakfast) and was quite vociferous I thought.

HeyWayne beat me to it.

ETA: On BBC breakfast there was even talk that Crufts would not be televised by the BBC.

The R.S.P.C.A. who I would not give the time of day to(But that's another story!!) would like to see only cross- breeds. They say that cross-breeds have no health issues.
I have one cross-breed with a massive heart defect (happy and well loved though) and another with severe mental problems, put up with for the last fourteen years and who will probably live until twenty five just to spite me
The issue is people who breed indiscriminately whether pure or cross breds, and who hasn't see in their local paper "Labradoodles" "Cockapoos" and other cross bred puppies selling at ridiculously high prices. These dogs are no more or less healthy than any pure-bred puppy,bred sensibly.
Look at past Crufts shows and track back bad breeding, I will guarantee you will find very little!!

[miss_corerupted]

i think the main differnce to me is that the deaf couple have a choice and can make an informed descsion. The dogs have no such control over their lives

[squashysu]

women keep saying that bald men are sexy .... but i'm still single .....

bless, my OH is bald and he is still sexy, i would never have fancied him with hair even 20 years ago when i first met him!!

I didnt watch this programme as was out and it would have broken my heart, i know there are breeders who only care how much they can line their pockets, it is a pure disgrace.

I have owned GSD's and they were show standard, but my first one was born blue (like jeans) and he was sold cheaper, but he was superb because he was not interbred!

I do however have to add about the 1st cousins bit, my sis and my cousin are together, but they have made the decision not to have children together, they didnt grow up together and didnt know each other until 2 years ago, but they love each other and want to share the rest of their life together, but they feel the risk of kids is too high, which is fair i think !

[Capsid]

I do however have to add about the 1st cousins bit, my sis and my cousin are together, but they have made the decision not to have children together, they didnt grow up together and didnt know each other until 2 years ago, but they love each other and want to share the rest of their life together, but they feel the risk of kids is too high, which is fair i think !

It's probably not too risky really. It depends if the family has a history of genetically inherited disorders. If not I think the risk is low. Interbreeding in dogs will increase the likelihood of a faulty gene appearing in the offspring because both parents carry the faulty gene(s).

[jamesp]

Some people will know by reading my posts on this forum are about dog behaviour and I am very passionate about dogs in general.

To me this highlights again one of the most negative powers humans posses and it often stops me helping a dog crying out for help because their human owner is in DENIAL about the problem, it has been scientifically proved in tests that humans only see what the want to see.

Even with hard facts and evidence presented to the kennel Club and breeders they remain in strong denial, while this remains the case i dont see the problem changing.

If anyone here has a dog that suffers from the problems mentioned in the programme, ie the boxer with epilepsy, one way that you can help the dog is NOT to give AFFECTION when in a stressed state of mind, in the dog world this only communicates to the dog that this state of mind is good to be in and you nurture the problem and can make it a lot worse than it already is.

I know this is difficult to refrain from from a human point of view and of course it will not cure the medical problem but will help the dog to at least some degree, give affection when the dog is in a calm state of mind ie after an attack has finished.

Dogs communicate mainly by scent, energy and body language, so again if your dog is stressed, feeling sorry for it will make you a weak energy source from your dogs point of view and again you will do more harm than good, remaining calm assertive can only help your dog as this is the strongest energy source in the animal world....

They did research in hospitals in the states and found that in a cardio ward that patients with heart problems had a much better chance of survival with a calm assertive nurse looking after them as opposed to a nurse with a short temper.

Also if your dog say has been hit by a car and is in a bad way, to give the dog the best chance of survival would be to rush him to the vet in a calm assertive way as if you go their screaming and panicking again your dog will pick up on this negative energy and he will have to cope with that as well as his injuries, it could make all the difference.

[SueA]

I didn't watch the show as they gave a warning out before it & I knew they were going to feature boxer dogs & we used to have a lovely boxer. She came from a champion on one side of her family & a pedigree but 'pet' boxer on the other & I don't think she had any serious inherited problems but she did have a slight heart murmur which didn't trouble her & small matching bare patches one on each of her sides which the vet said were common in boxers & dobermans. We had her spayed as we didn't want to breed from her but I wonder if she would have passed any problems on? I think there are probably lots of excellent breeders like Polly F but also lots of unscrupulous breeders who care only about making money & winning prizes too but I think you find that in many walks of life.

[petal]

I found the program deeply upsetting yet felt certain its not just the breeders to blame --I think SUPPLY AND DEMAND is the main demon here - perhaps by buying certain types of dogs we are ourselves causing this problem. We bought a proven working dog strain when we got our labrador, hip scored etc, the breeder was very thorough. I thought it was the obvious thing to do in getting a dog capable of doing what the dog book says it was bred for - the dog has to represent its breed. Not some fat thing that can't breathe - I can't imagine buying such a dog and thus encouraging the breeder to breed more of the things. You see the same silly guidelines for dog shows in horse show you know - eg a showpony such as a welsh cob is more popular if it is grossly over weight - which is deadly for a horse - they need to legislate, I bet the kennel club are really embaressed by this program and it will do them a lot of good.

[jamesp]

As i mentioned in my post the kennel club are blinded by denial, I doubt the programme will make a scrap of difference to them as the denial factor will outway the embarrassment factor.

[bluemoon]

Some people will know by reading my posts on this forum are about dog behaviour and I am very passionate about dogs in general.



If anyone here has a dog that suffers from the problems mentioned in the programme, ie the boxer with epilepsy, one way that you can help the dog is NOT to give AFFECTION when in a stressed state of mind, in the dog world this only communicates to the dog that this state of mind is good to be in and you nurture the problem and can make it a lot worse than it already is.

I know this is difficult to refrain from from a human point of view and of course it will not cure the medical problem but will help the dog to at least some degree, give affection when the dog is in a calm state of mind ie after an attack has finished.

As I mentioned earlier, our beloved Labrador suffered from epilepsy (caused by a brain tumour, not his breeding) It's true that it is very difficult not to hold a dog when he's having a seizure, but this is what we were told. Also turn off all the lights (or cover his head with a blanket if it's daytime) turn off T.V./radio etc, sit quietly and wait for the fit to finish. It doesn't stop the fits or reduce their frequency, but it can help it to pass more quickly. The idea being to ensure that the dog has little or no external stimulation which might prolong matters.

[JanieB]

I would love to have a dog. I have never craved a "pedigree". The dogs I've had over the years have been lab/retrieverXcollies from working dogs. They were intelligent, faithful, hardworking, healthy and happy. They had been (accidentally) bred from working farm dogs with no thought to "showing" them although the parents have all had pedigrees. I would love to go for the same again but am having trouble finding anything that isn't a pedigree.

They used to be advertised in the local papers. Nowadays everything is on the internet, so local interbred puppies don't get a look in. I can look in the local vets, but the ads are inside and not available to people who work full-time (going part-time in Oct). I can look at the local rescue centres, but they are pushing adult rescue dogs (quite rightly) but not what I want or can cope with..

What now happens to the interbred and heinz puppies. I would give one a home. I just can't find one!

I hated the interbred dog thing. Have they stopped docking tails?