Dog breeding

[squashysu]

do you know what, this whole thread is about what people will do to make MONEY!!! selfless people!

Breed a dog - make money
Kennel Club - make money
Sell pups - make money
show dogs - make money (prize money)

I will honestly say now that I HATE people (and thats a strong word) who are so damn money orientated and this is exactly what these people are like!!!!!!!!

I would just love to have a magic wand and put them through the pain and suffering they have put these dogs through!

Have you noticed the only people who dont make money are the good owners who want to help their dogs and the RSPCA, as they are a charity!!!

It doesnt matter what breed you have or love, whether your dog is big or small, it matters if you love, respect and look after them, as well as you would like to be looked after and really that should be all there is to it!

Sorry i am off my Soapbox now!!

[Polly Fouracre]

Squashisue! What prize money??!! All one gets, even for best in show is a bit of card and ribbon, albeit arranged attractively. If you win the group at a Championship show and have to return to challenge for best in show you may, or may not, get a tenner towards your travelling expenses. Even Crufts Best in Show only gets fifty pounds in prize money.
No, the majority of people who show their dogs do so for the pleasure of it. A day out with your dogs, meeting old friends, making new ones and enjoy their day whether or not they take home that bit of ribbon.
I can't say what goes on in the minds of dog BREEDERS as I have never made any profit from my dogs and wouldn't want to and I think that would be true of most exhibitors.
Yes, I agree that people who breed dogs only for profit are not dog lovers and have no interest in their welfare but unfortunately the Kennel Club have no jurisdiction over these people except to restrict registration of litters to try to protect the bitch. What else can they do?
Just out of interest how many dog breeders do you know and how many dog shows have you been to? I ask because someone once accused me of being a wealthy, hard faced "person" only out for profit. I told them that I work full-time nights and that though not attractive my face is quite soft and my dogs cost me more than half my wages to keep. But you see this is the image this person had of people who show their dogs.
Sorry, I am rambling a bit, just got home from work, going to exercise the hounds and go to bed!

[tootles]

I ended up almost £300 out of pocket after our dog had her pups!
On the other hand I have a friend who's flat coated retriever had 14 pups and she made £600 on each pup (quick maths - £8400). She has decided that a litter a year would bolster their savings nicely...................
My personal belief is that you should only breed if you are prepared to keep ALL the pups. (that would stop most breeders in their tracks!!)
My point about the RSPCA was that there have been no breeder prosecutions over the defects that they are breeding. The can denounce all they like - until someone goes to prison or is fined (heavily) the practice will continue.

[Capsid]

And today I read this.

The RSPCA said it was having to turn animals away as shelters were full.

[di]

I think it's just really sad that dogs for some(I don't mean all!)have become nothing more than a fashion accessory!
D is desperate for a dog,(got lots of sweet talking Andi to do!!)but if we did get one I think we'd opt for a Heinz 57.I can understand there are some who take great pleasure out of their breeds & have them to love as much as to show but why if what you want is a "mans best friend" is there a need for perfection~scruffy mutts are just as capable of being loving pets as purebreeds.

[petal]

And today I read this.

The RSPCA said it was having to turn animals away as shelters were full.

yes that was on the news last night, the 'credit crunch' is making people get rid of their pets and then the reporter said childhood obesity is escalating at an astounding rate!! I don't get it! Stop feeding porky kids so much and save money to look after your pet or give money to RSPCA then everyone is happy. If there is one thing I can't stand seeing - its a kid out of breath wobbling along eating with fat hanging over their waistband, height of cruelty and just as bad as the treatment of dogs.

[squashysu]

Squashisue! What prize money??!! All one gets, even for best in show is a bit of card and ribbon, albeit arranged attractively. If you win the group at a Championship show and have to return to challenge for best in show you may, or may not, get a tenner towards your travelling expenses. Even Crufts Best in Show only gets fifty pounds in prize money.
No, the majority of people who show their dogs do so for the pleasure of it. A day out with your dogs, meeting old friends, making new ones and enjoy their day whether or not they take home that bit of ribbon.
I can't say what goes on in the minds of dog BREEDERS as I have never made any profit from my dogs and wouldn't want to and I think that would be true of most exhibitors.
Yes, I agree that people who breed dogs only for profit are not dog lovers and have no interest in their welfare but unfortunately the Kennel Club have no jurisdiction over these people except to restrict registration of litters to try to protect the bitch. What else can they do?
Just out of interest how many dog breeders do you know and how many dog shows have you been to? I ask because someone once accused me of being a wealthy, hard faced "person" only out for profit. I told them that I work full-time nights and that though not attractive my face is quite soft and my dogs cost me more than half my wages to keep. But you see this is the image this person had of people who show their dogs.
Sorry, I am rambling a bit, just got home from work, going to exercise the hounds and go to bed!

hi ya PF, please dont take it personal, it was aimed at the people on the tv, not good breeders like yourself, i know lots of dog breeders and used to take my GSD to ring class and attended the shows, but not to show, just to spectate, when i mean prize money, i was told by someone that they do make money, so obviously i am wrong on that one! But when i talk about making money from breeding, i have seen many a puppy farm, there is one down from me and they have at least 10 breeds of dogs and permanent pups for sale!! i know many GSD breeders, as said, but i know like yourself they breed for the enjoyment and many are out of pocket. my rant was about the selfish people who breed, purely for profit and obviously by this programme there are many people out there. I surely dont see this is an image of people who show their dogs, but of people who will sacrifice their animals in order to get the best place, there is a big difference.

Please feel rest assured that this wasnt about you, it was about the people on the tv, and the many puppy farms out there and the toffs that do breed for the money and not for the fun of it.

[Alison]

Didn't watch the programme but from what has been written above it sounds like it reinforced some of the things that can occur which I have heard about previously. As a child, I remember seeing a bit of Crufts and feeling quite uncomfortable about the whole showing thing but not knowing why. Looking back I think it was that the dogs there bore no resemblance to the lovely scruffy mutts which were part of my life and I didn't like the pampered, heavily groomed look (don't like it on people by the way either so no just doggist!). See the odd clip over the years but will always struggle to understand this view of perfection as to me that always lies in personality and temperment rather than superficial looks.

[Mikey]

If anyone here has a dog that suffers from the problems mentioned in the programme, ie the boxer with epilepsy, one way that you can help the dog is NOT to give AFFECTION when in a stressed state of mind, in the dog world this only communicates to the dog that this state of mind is good to be in and you nurture the problem and can make it a lot worse than it already is.

I know this is difficult to refrain from from a human point of view and of course it will not cure the medical problem but will help the dog to at least some degree, give affection when the dog is in a calm state of mind ie after an attack has finished.

It's a while ago now, but isn't this the same for human, you don't try to restrain them you move stuff out of their way to ensure they cannot harm themselves. I thought the way the man was restraining the boxer could cause the dog harm. I have twice had to deal with epilepsy in humans, and only once had to physically get involved, and that was because the woman was in a swimming pool.

I think its good to see these issues out in the open rather than swept under the carpet, hopefully if nothing else it will bring about more questions from buyers of pedigree dogs. Was it the pekinese that only had 50 blood lines left in the UK, and were in theory more endangered than the panda?

[jamesp]

It's a while ago now, but isn't this the same for human, you don't try to restrain them you move stuff out of their way to ensure they cannot harm themselves. I thought the way the man was restraining the boxer could cause the dog harm. I have twice had to deal with epilepsy in humans, and only once had to physically get involved, and that was because the woman was in a swimming pool.

I think its good to see these issues out in the open rather than swept under the carpet, hopefully if nothing else it will bring about more questions from buyers of pedigree dogs. Was it the pekinese that only had 50 blood lines left in the UK, and were in theory more endangered than the panda?

Hi,

What I was really trying to explain is not to share affection with a dog in a stressed state, i wasn't trying to explain what to do when the attack occurs, I'll leave that for the vets to explain, but basically you just make sure the dog doesn't hurt himself ie move objects out of the way and also make sure he hasn't swallowed his tongue.

The main point I was trying to get accross is that sharing affection with a dog in a stressed state is only going to make things worse than they already are.

[Mikey]

This is understandable, most problems with dogs behaviour has little to do with the dog and everything to do with how the owner ensures they are head of the pack.

Dogs are like children and do not come with a manual, but they should always know who is head of the house.

[jamesp]

This is understandable, most problems with dogs behaviour has little to do with the dog and everything to do with how the owner ensures they are head of the pack.

Dogs are like children and do not come with a manual, but they should always know who is head of the house.

Quite correct, although I would go a little further and say that dog behaviour (unless a medical condition) has NOTHING to do with the dog (regardless of breed) and EVERYTHING to do with the owner.

The most effective way to sort out ANY bad behaviour (unless a medical condition) is to be the dogs pack leader.

The techniques are very simply but the understanding behind it takes a while to grasp as we have to learn how to communicate to our dogs and know how they communicate to us.

You cant go wrong using Cesar Millans (AKA the Dog Whisperer)techniques, watch his shows, but more importantly read his 3 books to get a real insight of what it is all about, you will soon be a pack leader after that!!!

We bring dogs into our lives to fulfill our needs, but not many people think about fulfilling the dogs needs.

Getting a dog and showering it with affection is not enough, in fact affection given at the wrong time can cause very extreme bad behaviours in our dogs.

As Cesar says......Exercise.....discipline then affection strictly in that order!

[Mikey]

As Cesar says......Exercise.....discipline then affection strictly in that order!

Are we truly any different!, when we look at our own children who wear their emotions more than we do. If you do not ensure plenty of the first, it will lead to little of the second, and make it very hard to show any of the third.

[Polly Fouracre]

Squashisue, my dearest, I did not think for one minute that you were targeting me personally. The point I was trying to put across was that we(the goodies!) are in the majority rather than the minority(the baddies!!)
But, as in all walks of life,the baddies get the publicity. How many caring and sensible people had a voice on that programme! None, for as good news doesn't sell papers good news doesn't sell T.V. time.
Tootles, I don't breed many litters, maybe one every two or three years (and what work and emotional expense goes into it) so I can see where you lost money.
A friend bred a litter of Ibizans and, rather than make money on them,gave them away to Ibby loving friends. Should I breed from a pug this year I will reciprocate because I know those pups will be loved and kept forever.
jamesp. I agree fully with you! Firework night, I get so cross with people saying that they have to huddle with their dogs on the floor to "re-assure" them. All they are doing is telling the dog that they are right to be afraid "Look, here is me , your pack leader also terrified" The sensible thing is to ignore the dog and carry on as usual until the dog says "Oh! God's in his Heaven, all's right with the world!"
I have mooted a scheme whereby every litter born and advertised for sale would need to be micro-chipped by the breeder (at their own expense) and every dog that goes into rescue must be ,at least, the financial responsibility of the breeder if not taken back by them. I would hate think of any pup I have bred being flung on the wings of the world and that goes for any pups my stud dog has sired.
Anyway, I didn't get any sleep today as, when I took the first lot of dogs up to the field, I found five ponies loose in the lane (Not for the first time either!) Exercised the dogs, put the ponies in our field, thinking I would put them into their own field when I had the bigger dogs with me. But,no, our field was much nicer than theirs(too nice, probably) Happily the dogs are used to these ponies and when they had chased each other to exhaustion they settled down to be friends. I just wish I could find the owners of these ponies, who are all so lovely, I might have a word to say to them on fences, gates etc.
Thinking!! If I were to breed pidgeons or pigs to show no-one would turn a hair if I ate the surplus!!

[Mikey]

Thinking!! If I were to breed pidgeons or pigs to show no-one would turn a hair if I ate the surplus!!

Ah but as a nation we do not eat dogs!, we do however keep them as pets, so there is always a lot of emotion charged around animals that you keep as a member of the family. The truth be told they are for me the only real pet, you do not keep a cat it chooses to keep you company, you cannot interact or communicate with a pigeon, or a hamster, or a goldfish. Dogs are truly mans best and only friend.