Hello Friends -- Im about to have a moan its good for the soul

[NSB]

One of my beloved cats has taken up fishing!!!!


Oh yes not the cheap £1 goldfish in the pond its our prize Koi's she has now caught 4 koi's, our largest white one last week, ripped the lips of our golden tench today, and left my large fancy goldfish Dec on my lounge carpet today, I have scales on my bed, scales on the cat flap, and my OH pulled the fish of the carpet as it had stuck to the carpet!!

So after air freshner, 2 loads of carpet shampoo and the doors open for ventilation my lounge stinks of dead fish.

Oh and earlier in the year she brought in Ant the other fancy goldfish.

and surprise surprise the pond is covering with netting!!.

I feel better now but still not happy.

[Two_Sheds]

My cat used to do this. Until we pushed him into the pond

[NSB]

ah maybe thats the way - I was thinking of the cats home

[rustylady]

If you have the time, sit next to the pond armed with a water pistol (preferably high power). As soon as cat looks interested in pond spray him/her with a lot of water. Shouldn't take many lessons before cat gives up on pond fishing.

[Hans Mum]

i know the feeling although thankfully didnt get into the house, one of our neighbours cats took a 12" orf from the pond and started to eat it tail end first OH got dragged from bed to sort (he works nights) now have a big water shooter and it gets full blast if it even thinks about coming down the drive....funnily enough my cats dont even think about it

[lynda66]

mine just sit watching the fish, kitten stays about a foot away watching, cos she's fallen in a few times they've never tried fishing thankfully

[Shortie]

My cat used to do this. Until we pushed him into the pond

OMG that made me laugh... Don't forget though not to do it soon after flea treatment otherwise you'll kill your fish anyway

[Two_Sheds]

Seriously, cats hate water. It seems cruel, but he doesn't understand reasoning (or even English!).
Push him in the pond - his feet will barely touch the water before he jumps back out again, but it will put him off.
If he associates "fishing" with "getting drenched" he'll stop doing it. Psychologists call it negative reinforcement, not punishment

[Hilary B]

You may be able to deter cats by making them 'paddle' before they get within fishing range. Make a 'bog garden' all around the pond, about 2" deep and a couple of feet wide, with only the narrowest 'edging' between it and the pond. They REALLY don't like getting their feet wet on the way!

[Hilary B]

Seriously, cats hate water. It seems cruel, but he doesn't understand reasoning (or even English!).
Push him in the pond - his feet will barely touch the water before he jumps back out again, but it will put him off.
If he associates "fishing" with "getting drenched" he'll stop doing it. Psychologists call it negative reinforcement, not punishment

No cat's don't understand English, although they do get the gist of 'Anglo-Saxon' (ie, swearing)<g>.
The idea with pushing the cat in the pond is that he comes to see the pond as 'not a nice place', so he will stay away. I would call that aversion therapy....

[Two_Sheds]

I don't mind what it's called, it works

[NSB]

My cat has already fallen in when we first built the pond last year, its amazing cats can dive and swim!!! This cat also sits on the edge of the bath, you cannot have a bath with the door shut as she moans the whole time.

We have thought of one of those water scarecrows which squirt water upon movement. Otherwise we have shut them in today cannot stand the trauma

[bluemoon]

NSB, refer to the thread 'Dogs and Cats, the Truth'. It may help you understand

[SlugLobber]

Seriously, cats hate water. It seems cruel, but he doesn't understand reasoning (or even English!).
Push him in the pond - his feet will barely touch the water before he jumps back out again, but it will put him off.
If he associates "fishing" with "getting drenched" he'll stop doing it. Psychologists call it negative reinforcement, not punishment

EEK!

That is NOT negative reinforcement!!!!! Negative reinforcement by definition INCREASES the likelihood of a behaviour by the cessation of a NEGATIVE stimulus when the behaviour is performed. e.g.press leg against side of horse, horse moves forward, leg is removed.

Positive punishment REDUCES the likelihood of a behaviour by introducing a negative stimulus AFTER the behaviour has occurred. e.g.dog bites leg, dog gets a smack at the time of the bite. Depending on what the cat was doing, you would either be punishing going near the pond, or paw in the pond. Depends on how skillful you are!
Positive punishment is ADDITION of negative stimulus, NEGATIVE punishment would be removal of a positive stimulus due to bad behaviour e.g.taking away a child's favourite toy.

Sorry, but I disagree with Two Sheds on his experience of cats hating water (it's a subjective thing and some breeds LOVE it, such as Siamese and my neighbour's cat, plus my old cat who would share a bath given half the chance!) and in the advice given. The cat will not necessarily learn that YOU pushing him into the water means that fishing is bad. What MAY take place, is classical conditioning, where a stimulus is paired by the subject (the cat) with a response. e.g. he might pair a shout from the human with being pushed into the water. Rather than teach him that 'fishing is bad', he will just learn that this human is a nasty sh*t and cats certainly have the cognitive ability to simply fish when you're not there! Certainly this occurs when the 'drive' or 'urge' is foremost. If there is no shout, just a push into the water, then you risk the cat learning nothing at all except to avoid you (pairing presence of human with push into water), not to mention injury to yourself AND cat if the netting is there. My own cat used to bring in mice, which I would take off him. Result? Cat keeps mice outside, or sneaks them in when I'm not there! Watching the grey streak dart through my house, when he realises that I'm in tells me that he knows that me + kill = kill taken away. I haven't stopped the behaviour, only modified it.

Another example; a dog stealing biccies from a worktop might leave the worktop alone if his human shouts (as a smack sometimes follows and in any case, if the dog stands still, the shouting stops), but when the human is absent, he will steal the biccies then. That's because he hasn't been taught that 'biccies should be left alone', rather he has been taught, 'shout = smack' or 'shout + stand still = no smack (in this case, the shout is a 'bridge' between the behaviour and response, in the same way that the click is the bridge between the behaviour and reward in clicker training), so he stops whatever he's doing at the time and if a smack normally follows shouting, he'll cower. Of course, when the human is absent, there is no shout, so he carries on with whatever he's doing and reinforces the behaviour with the reward of a biccie.

The water pistol (positive punishment) is a more sensible idea (although I'm not a fan of +P personally, due to the bad timings that people sometimes have, I can see that the alternatives in this situation i.e. + reinforcement are difficult to implement).

Sorry to ramble on, but it's a subject I'm quite passionate about (can you tell? ). I've been studying behaviour on a formal and informal basis for 15 years and one thing that grates, even after all this time is incorrect definitions, as these mean people *think* they are doing one thing, when they're doing something completely different. I've made mistakes in the past, due to exactly this.

Lastly, three rules of using punishment (if you have to):
-it should be at the time of the behaviour, and not more than 5 seconds after. The longer the interlude, the less learning that occurs. I forget what the maximum was in the study I read, but it was certainly less than 10 seconds - might have been 3 seconds optimum?
-it should cease IMMEDIATELY after the undesired behaviour does. This means no following poor kitty once he's left the water's edge. The MOMENT he removes a paw from the water, the pistol stops.
-it should be in proportion with the behaviour. One reason I am not a fan of electric collars and the like. The infliction of pain is not in proportion with most of the behaviours it is used against and most owners don't appreciate how little voltage you need to inflict it.

If you got this far, I applaud you!!!!!!

[SlugLobber]

Should clarify that I am not saying 'mean people', I am saying the the definitions MEAN people...blah blah. Sorry, that's a huge post - must be a record!!