baby P petition

[Pompeylottie]

wll you've made me feel bad and I've made you feel bad so shall we just agree to be friends!! My mouth unfortunatley jumps in before the brain is in gear, especially after a long week. I'm sure both of us are just as horrified about what happened to the poor little lad.

[di]

Tracy,I don't think you have anything to feel sorry for.What's happened to Baby P was truly horrific,actually worse,& I think everyone of us feels disgust & despair over what happened to the poor mite.You were doing what felt/feels right for you to try & bring some kind of justice.My concern is,that the petition from the Sun is looking for individuals to lay the blame with,where actually I'm sure these individuals are probably already feeling absolutely sh1te in themselves.......I've not kept myself 100% up to date with who missed what & who may or may not have reported incidents,but I'm sure there is far more to it than negligence from one or two individuals.It IS disgusting that the same council managed to let two precious babes slip through the net,but often the people working the field are bound so much by red tape there's so little they can do.Yep,I think heads should roll,but not necessarily the ones that are being used as scapegoats right now.Like I said,I've not read every detail,so maybe I shouldn't comment,but I've felt myself in awkward situations in previous jobs,where I've wanted to do so much more than bureaucracy would allow.(thankfully never anything at this level)There will be investigations into how Baby P was allowed to be tortured for so long & be allowed to remain with the abusers & hopefully the right heads will roll & appropriate changes made.In the meantime,it is something that has affected a lot of us hugely & all being different,we are all bound to try & deal with it in different ways.Tracy,your way is no more right or wrong than anyone elses.xx

[tracy]

this is weird some say ok some say no ..at the end of the day we all have our own thoughts going on ...but will the powers that be listen......sorry again i am on a high horse standing on a big box airing my views....i dont think i have posted a post this strong before but just imagine your daughter / son even a family friend and you find out abuse is going on ! !!! now how do you feel
again i feel strongly about this so sorry if have upset anyone

[Tam]

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to capital punishment for paedophile's and child murder's. More details"

I'm afraid this is how the Downing Street Petition appears and it doesn't make much sense.
Perhaps a more literate person should rewrite it.

[tracy]

dear pompeylottie
i now feel really poo i only posted this thread to get as many people to sign the petitcion

[Pompeylottie]

No NO, please do not feel poo or I shant sleep tonight!! We all feel the same about this awful murder but have different ways of dealing with it. It's good you brought the petition to our attention, I shouldn't have been so negative. DOnt worry about me, I'm glad we're all talking about it, I think it's been public outcry that's elicited an apology at long last - and hopefully an independent enquiry.

[johnty greentoes]

OK here goes...

At the height of a rabid media frenzy is it right that this forum gives space to people who are calling for the dismissal of named social workers. Social workers named by The Sun?

[Pompeylottie]

I think we all should be able to air our views in a democratic way but I believe social workers, nurses, and any public workers etc are an easy target for the papers to attack as they are not able to respond or explain due to privacy issues. If a case goes to court the truth may eventually be told but not before the worker involved has often reisgned through stress and their health and career has been ruined.

[Johnny Appleseed]

Well done for raising this issue Tracy

If nothing else it has generated debate and deeper thought on the issue.

The Telegraph have reported the natural fathers views and given some facts in the case.

Please do not follow this link if the circumstances and events of Baby P's death may upset you

Baby P: Father speaks out - Telegraph

I'm not gunning for Social Workers - but there are many serious questions here concerning all parties at all levels which need to be answered not dismissed and whitewashed over. It is this mentality that brought us to where we are today on this case.

And these questions cannot simply be dismissed by saying "I don't believe what I read in the press"

We have to look at the facts of the case and make decisions accordingly. Some hard decisions will have to be made but whatever is done retrospectively won't bring Baby P back.

We need to examine why so many warning signs were missed and letters from concerned individuals ignored and passed from "pillar to post".

If as reported this poor child was seen "60 times" in 17 months by child professionals and no-one saw anything wrong - what on earth is going on.

This child was being seen once a week for 17 months by professionals and he still died from his appalling injuries?

Someone should be shouting from the rooftops that the system let Baby P down and everyone involved at all levels should account for their actions.

What happened here is disgraceful and shocking but clearly more than one "professional" is involved.

I cannot express my feelings on the people who did this to Baby P as the comments would be unprintable.

I look forward to seeing what does happen in future and what changes are implemented as a result of this tragedy.

[johnty greentoes]

Isn't it almost always a fact in these cases that what comes out in court/inquiry invalidates 90% of what has been written on the subject in the press?

Maybe those who are so shocked by this case should volunteer some time to work alongside families and professionals in such circumstances instead of sniping from their holier-than-thou sidelines.

Whatever the outcome - and for God's sake let's hope it is justice for all concerned - one impact of this case will be tighter control, more regulation and all with no extra resourcing (thanks to the mess the global economy has become thanks to our public school educated friends). The net result will be fewer people considering social work as a career, it's just too risky. Would you do it?

[Johnny Appleseed]

One chilling fact johnty

is that Baby P died whilst clearly "on the radar" of social services and other medical professionals.

The fact that one of the social workers at the council offices took the time and put their career at risk to write to a minister about their concerns speaks volumes to me.

The excuse of overworked and understaffed doesn't explain away this one.

This child was 17 months old and had been seen 60 times by "professionals".

60 visits in 8 months and 50 recorded injuries. A doctor that missed a broken back. I feel sick writing it.

You would think and I would expect, someone would connect up the dots where a child unable to speak for itself was concerned.

Dear God, what would have to happen to this child to get some action?

Something went terribly wrong in the same office as the Victoria Clumbia fiasco where everyone said "This must never happen again" and here it is - happening again.

What on earth was going on to let this happen again?

There are serious questions to be answered - rubbishing the press is myopic.

When a member of staff complains to a minister the alarm bells are already ringing in my ears.

That's not a whistle blower - that is an act of courage from a very brave and concerned individual.

[Alison]

this is by no means a witch hunt it is a petition to try and change laws that give murderers 14 years in prison so with good behaviour could be out in 7 years whilst the child only lived for a very short 17 months . this is the law at the moment and i for one want to see it changed.

My previous comment wasn't about the punishment for murderers, I was more referring to the first link which is quite clearly related to the social services etc involved, whilst some of them may quite well be guilty of bad judgement, lack of time etc etc they, themselves are not murderers and in most cases are probably well meaning and hard working individuals who perhaps could be guilty of having to work within ridiculous red tape or perhaps are lacking in training. It is possible that some people should be sacked, I don't know as a thorough investigation has not yet taken place. Yes we all agree that a terrible thing has happened and should never happen again but for a baying mob to call for a wholesale cull is neither helpful nor productive.

Whilst it appears that some of us have different oppinions in the way to go, we are all in agreement about our horror and disgust that such a thing should happen in the so called civilised world in which we live.

[tracy]

you say they may be guilty of bad judgement or lack of time but do you honestly want to be seen at some point by a doctor who failed to diagnose that baby p had a broken back and was paralysed from the waist down -i know you probably wont be seen by this doctor by my argument is if he is not struck of who will he miss diagnose in the future...someone elses child and will he get away with again and again where do we draw the line...

[kiwirach]

.......where a child unable to speak for itself was concerned.

this isnt directed at you Johnny, just in reply to this comment.....

one wonders how long the professionals spent with BabyP and his mother/carers.....an abused child will convey serious issues nonverbally if someone has the time to watch, and then understand the signs. an abused child will not behave towards his abuser(s) the same way he would to someone he trusts....the signs may be subtle, but they will be there to the trained eye.

i used to work in well child health in NZ and worked with alot of at risk famillies.

[Johnny Appleseed]

I do not want to be part of a baying mob

but for a baying mob to call for a wholesale cull is neither helpful nor productive.

Whilst it appears that some of us have different oppinions in the way to go, we are all in agreement about our horror and disgust that such a thing should happen in the so called civilised world in which we live.

I do not want to be part of a baying mob - and I do not advocate a "wholesale cull" but what on earth was going on here?

60 visits in 8 months - two a week - by child professionals

50 injuries on a paralysed child with a broken back and broken ribs

A doctor that described Baby p as "a little cranky" - this almost defies belief if true.

A front tooth punched out

The tip of a finger missing

Bruises all over the body

A social worker in the same office who puts their career on the line by bypassing their manager, Head of Department and Leader of the Council by writing direct to a minister......

How many more clues would you need..........????

This child was being monitored by Social Services - the child was desperate for help - what was Baby p supposed to do - send an email to his MP?

When a child in this much distress is desperately in need of help - who else is there to help if the "professionals" get it wrong?

The professionals are paid to look after children in exactly these circumstances - we need to know what went wrong and why.

If children already on the radar of Social Services can suffer horrific treatment like this - what else needs to be done to prevent it?

Something went badly wrong here and an internal enquiry by the very people that were party to it in the first place is not the answer. Those party to these events, should not be the ones to self assess the situation simply because they have already got it wrong once with tragic and fatal consequences.

That is like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.