Creating a forest garden advice please

[Nicos]

I'm actually asking for a friend!

The lucky peeps have an organic field which they are going to turn into a forest garden.
Does anyone have any experience/knowledge /advice for them please?

They intend to plant only edibles of various heights and are literally starting from scratch.
So....the basics....

Apart from just digging holes and planting trees, shrubs etc directly into the grass, should they consider laying down a layer of very well composted organic compost ontop of the grass first or do you think that would be too rich for the plants?
And yes, they have a huuuge pile of compost!
They really don't want to go down the route of ploughing up unless they have to

I know there are lists of trees and shrubs which work together but we can't seem to find a list of purely edibles to grow underplanting one another.

Any suggestions?
Its an exciting project isn't it?!

(oh and they are in the NW UK, not France)

[mothhawk]

Maybe they should start with the book by the man who invented the system https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EGWJN...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

Have you seen this brief step by step guide? https://spiralseed.co.uk/making-forest-garden/

And I would say if they have the compost, then spread it. If it's a thick layer it will reduce the grass, and in any case will benefit all the plants they intend to grow. Once the forest garden is established it will not be so easy to spread compost. It will be more a case of individual mulching of plants. As for ploughing, what for? Unless to turn in the grass.

And how big is the field? They need to be realistic about the area they can look after by hand. Robert Hart's forest garden was only 0.12 acres (500 sq metres), not a whole field.

[nickdub]

This is going to be much harder than it sounds, if it is to be evaluated on how much edible food is produced. It's a very, very difficult thing to do in the UK.

You can (and I do) grow fruit on trees and bushes in a 'semi-wild, low maintenance, let the plants get on with it' way - that part is reasonably easy, though it does take time, as trees do not fruit the year you plant them - so it can take several years before production starts. No, the difficulties really in growing food this way are mostly down two things :- lack of light and pests.

a) lack of light means most fruit trees only produce a crop once a year in the UK eg apples in the autumn - they look lovely the rest of the year and need little attention but you only get fruit once a year - this can be extended a bit by planting a variety which you can eat now and others which won't be ripe until October and will keep until January. Lack of light also means that underplanting LARGE trees with other food producing plants is a waste of time. (you can grow some plants under small tees or cordons successfully, but then you end up with other problems)

b) pests - large orchards growing something as a tree fruit like say Cherries can manage pests in various ways so they still get a crop. None of these ways apply to large fruiting trees in a small orchard type setting - I grow hazelnuts here in the hopes of eating some occasionally, as it looks this year the squirrels have already stripped the trees.


So in summary I'd say to your friends or anyone else, yes plant trees especially fruit trees (I've got about 50 in my garden). The ones that will crop for you are well known eg plums, apples, pears but don't expect anything much in the way of a reduction in your food bills as a result, Soft fruit are also well worth planting but most need good sun for at least half a day in the summer ie NOT under trees lots of easy ones like loganberries, gooseberries etc which are simple to propagate yourself so don't need to cost much - then there are specialist fruits like grapes - I grow those in a poly-tunnel, others manage to get worthwhile crops outside they need the most sun of all.

One further thought. As your friends have the space they could combine their semi-wild garden with beekeeping - I find this is a fascinating hobby and some people manage to make money out of it too - I never have, but with the price of local honey being what it is in the shops it can be a valuable product. Other niche ideas which I cannot comment on personally are out there, mushrooms for one.

[Nicos]

I was just looking into truffle inoculated Hazel and sweet chestnut. An interesting idea!!

[Jungle Jane]

There’s a list of edible layers in this link,how exciting good luck Nicos friend
https://grocycle.com/how-to-create-a-food-forest/

Canopy Layer

• Apple
• Mulberry
• Carob
• Cherry
• Chestnut
• Walnut
• Pecan
• Hawthorn
• Honey Locust

Lower Tree Layer

• Dwarf Apple
• Dogwood
• Elderberry
• Crab Apple
• Apricot
• Olive
• Dwarf plum
• Bamboo
• Beech

Shrub Layer

• Blueberry
• Blackberry
• Currant
• Rosemary
• Gooseberry
• Goji berry
• Guava
• Lavender
• Raspberry
• Rose

Herbaceous Layer

• Broad Bean
• Asparagus
• Borage
• Dill
• Fennel
• Chives
• Mint
• Parsley
• Oregano
• Rhubarb
• Stevia

Groundcover Layer

• Strawberries
• Clover
• Thyme
• Cranberry
• Lingonberry
• Marshmallow
• Nasturtium
• Wintergreen

Rhizosphere

• Beetroot
• Carrot
• Daikon
• Garlic
• Ginger
• Horseradish
• Onion
• Potato

Vertical Layer

• Soybean
• Squash
• Grapes
• Watermelon
• Cucumbers
• Climbing peas
• Passionfruit
• Pumpkin

[Nicos]

Oh wow!...that's fantastic....Thankyou!

It IS exciting isn't it?

[burnie]

In France they would have to consider fencing the area, or the wildlife will eat it all, Deer and Wild Boar for starters.

[nickdub]

As can be easily seen from the plants on the interesting lists given by Jane above, a lot of the advice on this sort of food production is targetted at people living in tropical or sub-tropical places. Cropping at different levels with tall trees underplanted with various other food plants works well when you get high sunlight levels year round, but here in the UK things are different, and so I'm doubtful if this system can ever be adapted to work here.

[Nicos]

Maybe spacing will be more of an important factor with this?
( plus the max/min temp required!)

[Plot70]

Is the land sloping?
On a south sloping plot under planting would work well.
Runner beans work well in partial shade.
Almonds can produce in some years.
Just chuck the mulch on.
Figs are good too. They are pretty hardy but mine lost a lot of buds this year due to late frost after they had opened this year.
Walnuts are very nice if you have got the space.