Man kicked to death near my old flat

[Two_Sheds]

It seems to me that most of the problems mentioned in the posts on this thread are relating to areas of social exclusion.

I agree. That's what real poverty does ~ it excludes you from "normal" society, because you can't afford to do what people with disposable income can do: pubs, clubs, cinema, theatre, holidays ... you can't even afford to heat your home; you tend to mix with other people who also have no money.
The life on longterm benefits is miserable, and it doesn't surprise me that people turn to alcohol and drugs for comfort, and then to crime to fund those habits.

It's no excuse for criminal behaviour, but if we as a society want to prevent these crimes, we need to understand what causes them.

I'm no expert, but that's how it seems to me.

[bubblewrap]

The biggest problem is the chasm between the haves and the have nots we live in a rich country yet a large number of the population are denied a decent standard of living.
Why is it that people are living rough when thousands of houses stand empty?
The present economic problems were caused by the greed of a few rich bankers and then us poor tax payers are expected to bail them out.
I could go on but you will get my angle!

[johnty greentoes]

Terrible what happened 2Sheds. I do think we are a nation in crisis at so many levels, but then so is a lot of West World, it's just that the weather is better elsewhere as well. I appreciate the socio-explanations that people give, and I agree with their logic, but at what point did we just give up on the moral argument that kicking the living s**t out of someone in an alleyway is just plain wrong. I am a lefty teacher, I read the Guardian etc etc, but I can't help thinking that large numbers of our citizens have a very dodgy moral compass if they have one at all... and that goes for fat cat bankers as well of course.

[bubblewrap]

Sorry about this one people but the words still ring true
YouTube - Working Class Hero - John Lennon

[Rocketron]

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
They've certainly learn't that bit, bubblewrap.

But Lennon's song was discarded into History as soon as The Milk Snatcher and her cronies gained power.
"A property owning democracy"
"There is no such thing as Society" etc.
We are left with a land in which huge numbers of people know they cannot own property (forgetting that their parents were quite happy to live in rented accommadation), have no job and the old support networks have been destroyed.

[bubblewrap]

Murdered the coal industry to smash the trade unions
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AhmfQhtszf0

[Two_Sheds]

I appreciate the socio-explanations that people give, and I agree with their logic, but at what point did we just give up on the moral argument that kicking the living s**t out of someone in an alleyway is just plain wrong.

I agree, it's totally unacceptable to kick a person to death. It is totally unacceptable to harm another person.
I said that poverty is no excuse .. however, there are people in this country (Karen Matthews et al) who have no social code, no morals. They don't seem to know right from wrong. They exist in [wider] society, even if they are not 'socialised' ~ and the rest of us have to mop up after them.

So as a society, we should be looking for solutions. Blaming, pointing fingers, shaking heads - achieves nothing.

[maytreefrannie]

Absolutely agree that solutions are needed and I believe most people want and would work towards a better society - but is anything actually being done, or is someone commisioning yet another report which will need to be interpreted by another commission who'll wait for a further report from the sub-committee set up by the first commission.

Why don't they listen to ordinary people instead?

[bubblewrap]

Tut Tut Tut That would never do we don't elect them to listen to us!!

[smallblueplanet]

Tut Tut Tut That would never do we don't elect them to listen to us!!

But surely 'they' did listen to us? Those of us who voted in Mrs 'No Society' Thatcher? We got what we wanted...

[bubblewrap]

But surely 'they' did listen to us? Those of us who voted in Mrs 'No Society' Thatcher? We got what we wanted...

But did we deserve it??
I was a member of the Labour party 1978-2005.
And I not too sure Blair & Brown are that much better or was I expecting too much?