Tiiiigerrrs Tiiigeerrrrrs

[bobleponge]

The woes of English cricket I think can best be explained in a simple phrase. Too many players.
The most successful cricket side in the world, Australia, only have 8 (I stand to be corrected) pro cricket teams. We have how many? 2 divisions? Ludicrous.

[bubblewrap]

Fair comment or is it the case that our players play too many games?

[bobleponge]

Too many players, too many clubs, too many competitions, too many games. Well thats my opinion anyway. Should reduce the system down to much more competitive level, 20/20 will bring more youngsters into the game as its exciting, but then moving them into 40 overs, 50 overs, 3 day then 4 day matches just reduces the excitement to tedium.
I love cricket, just think there are too many teams in the English set up.

[bubblewrap]

Bob does this apply to football too? (too many games)

[smallblueplanet]

I'm afraid I'm yet to be convinced by the 'too many foreigners' arguement. Indeed it seems a convenient peg to hang troubles on ' them foreign johnnies took our jobs!'

Where were we in whichever sport before the foreigners came and took the silver coin...the problem lies deeper than the surface surely? At the grass roots of the game in coaching and availability of facilities to bring youngsters through?

[littlemark]

It's because Leicester have, up until recently, contributed so many players to the England squad that they need to bring in foreign players to cover during internationals. It really isn't the problem people think it is, so long as clubs have a healthy, thriving academy, bringing young, often local players through the system. Some clubs have neglected this side of the game in the past, and suffered as a result, though I believe most of the premiership clubs now have good academy structures.

A much bigger problem is the spiraling salarys on the world stage. France in particular is driving wage bills to unreasonable levels, hence the near insolvency of several clubs, even Leicester, one of the most profitable English clubs, made a loss last season!

Mark

[bubblewrap]

Please don't misunderstand me I'm not anti foreigner.
If we could train up our home grown talent may be not so many imports would me needed.
I also think our domestic game has been greatly enhanced by these players

[bobleponge]

I think the proof is already there for all to see. In our national game (and no matter what the egg chasers say, Association Football is our national game) the premiership is inundated with foreign talent, and our national side is struggling.
There are a wealth of facilities and coaching available for our youngsters. I think every premiership club has an acadamy whose raison d'etre is searching out talented kids to come and join them. Makes sense financially for the clubs to find home grown talent than spending a fortune on foreigners. The problem is that these acadamies also scour the world looking for exceptional kids. These kids then come to the UK and their already natural ability is honed by good coaches. What this means though is that of the worldwide pool of talent, the best come to England to be nurtured into world class players. Thus, the very good English kid doesnt have a chance in the top flight as the exceptional Brazilian or Croatian or whoever.
The outstanding talent, ie Wayne Rooney, WILL make it to the top due to his inate natural ability, but he is the exception rather than the rule.
My side, Arsenal, has a superb academy in place, and the talent that is coming through is awesome, but only 3 of them are English, and I would wager that perhaps 1, Jack Wilshire, will make it to be a regular in the first team. The remainder are foreign.
I am no xenophobe, I am in fact an immigrant in a foreign land and enjoy being so, but I do want to see my national sporting teams succeed. I simply feel that the influx of foreign players is reducing the ability of the national player and thus the national side to do well.

*climbs down from soapbox and tries to find soothing towel for fevered brow*

[smallblueplanet]

Didn't mean you bubblewrap, as you said cricket doesn't seem much better for having a 'foreigners cap'.

Perhaps each sport should address the issue of why paying foreign players is preferable to paying 'home grown' ones, then we might get to the root of the problem. Its no good just saying ban foreign players, who will replace them?

Suceeding at national level is to me a further step to suceeding at local level - the manager is supremely important...where are the great managers that can make the sum of their players greater than the parts? ie Jack Charlton with Ireland all those years ago!!!

[bubblewrap]

Brian Clough did very well too.

[smallblueplanet]

Indeed he did BW - as a Derby fan I know that very well...but we had some great players too, players that together suceeded at a small town parochial club because of a great manager!

[pigletwillie]

It's because Leicester have, up until recently, contributed so many players to the England squad that they need to bring in foreign players to cover during internationals. It really isn't the problem people think it is, so long as clubs have a healthy, thriving academy, bringing young, often local players through the system. Some clubs have neglected this side of the game in the past, and suffered as a result, though I believe most of the premiership clubs now have good academy structures.

A much bigger problem is the spiraling salarys on the world stage. France in particular is driving wage bills to unreasonable levels, hence the near insolvency of several clubs, even Leicester, one of the most profitable English clubs, made a loss last season!

Mark

I totally agree, in recent years Leicester supplied most of Englands forwards and even in the recent internationals we supplied

Toby flood
Harry Ellis
Jordan Crane
Tom Croft

We have paid the price too many times by having lots of internationals away and losing to a team that gives nothing to the National Squad.

Tigers have the best academy in the country and you only have to look at how many of the squad have come through that and now play in the first team and will soon be knocking on Englands door, Matt Smith in particular.

Whilst France does not have wage cap, England does, and that stops English clubs hiring the likes of Dan Carter for �30k a match and prevents the huge debt that has occured in soccer (sorry, rugby is football)

[pigletwillie]

sorry hun, don't do rugby.........quite happy to do rugby players though?

Ahem, I play front row (No 3) for Aylestons St James

[bobleponge]

[QUOTE=smallblueplanet;322942]

Perhaps each sport should address the issue of why paying foreign players is preferable to paying 'home grown' ones, then we might get to the root of the problem.

QUOTE]

They pay foreign players as a route to quick success. A young home grown player will take 5-6 years of coaching etc before becoming the player his manager wants him to be. If someone else has already done the work, and he can be bought, he will be bought. Chelsea under the first 2 years of Abramovich is a case in point.

[bobleponge]

PW I was also going to mention that I play no.9 for Martigne Ferchaud vets, but wasnt sure if i should.

Bride, please take note of above. Thank you.