Is it us, or does it just happen?

[SarzWix]

I don't think we started it, and I don't think we can stop it. But I do think that the sooner we learn to do without, or recycle, the great swathes of plastic which "Civilised" countries seem to think we need, the better... Nobody seems to be very interested that 'fossil fuels' are a finite resource, and if they run out before humans are extinct, an awful lot of folks won't have a clue how to cope!

[bubblewrap]

I thought the melting permafrosts are the biggest single cause of methane gas...

In that case I must stop eating sprouts/baked beans/JAs.

[Irie Jan]

Got to love threads. How do we go from climate change to bloomers?

We are mostly women on here, we have lots to talk about! One thing leads to another. Perhaps a little lateral thinking thrown into the blend of things and the topic changes a little! Then like Chinese whispers the next person adds to what the first person said and there you go. We go from climate change to bloomers!

Just to change the subject angin lol I hope you all had a good newyear!

[HeyWayne]

I'm not mostly a woman.

[Irie Jan]

I'm not mostly a woman.

I did not say that you are mostly a woman!!! I said it is mostly women on the vine and we have a good natter about all sorts!

[mina.magpie]

Okay, so I kinda started reading the thread ... but I have the attention span of my avatar, so I kinda just skipped to the end to give my own take on it.

The geological record does show previous warming and cooling periods - it is absolutely a natural phenomenon. However, we're making things happen much more quickly, which puts enormous strain on species who cannot evolve quickly enough to adapt to the new environment, leading to widespread extinctions. It's not just the carbon we put into the atmostphere either. I saw a doccie on Discovery the other day about biodiversity in our harbours, and apparently there's something like 1 or 2 % left worldwide because of all the invasive species we've been transporting around on the hulls of our ships.

I don't know how many of you know much about James Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis (that the planet is basically an interconnected system, almost like a living organism, with us the component parts), but he wrote a book recently called, very dramatically, "The Revenge of Gaia". Title notwithstanding, it's actually a fascinating read. Lovelock compares what's happening to the climate now to the Paleocene-Eocene thermal maximum. The earth's temperature spiked by about 6 degrees over 20,000 years, making pretty-much everywhere except the arctic and antarctic circles unlivable for that period - There are fossilised crocodiles in the arctic circle from then. The most likely suspect for this event was a super-volcano eruption that spewed massive amounts of carbon and sulphur into the atmosphere. The amounts we've been putting out are apparently even greater.

Mina.

[Alison]

Whether anybody agrees with us having an impact on climage change (note, not global warming, change ie some places will get warmer, some colder, some more stormy etc etc) the way that the so called civilised world is treating this planet is terrible. Yes, one person doing a little bit doesn't make much difference but lots of people doing something does. Every little helps in the reduction of consumption, pollution and the like. There are too many people selfish people about and I've noticed a change in attitudes in this country from the 80s when people started thinking that they had a right to own things. We should all have the right to clean drinking water, fresh air and basic food but when did it get to be the normal for some people to think they had the right to change their TV every couple of years (note, I said some people, not all, many of you will know people like this!), just throwing the old one away and getting a new one shipped across the planet with it's excessive packaging.... Waste just annoys me. As I said at the start of my post, it doesn't matter whether you buy into the scientific bit, the world would be a much better place if there were less selfish and greedy people about. Set an example but don't think that recycling is the answer, it's about reduction. Don't keep buying stuff you will just throw away. Make a stand, chose products with less packaging and when you really can't make a point and send a letter about it (enough of them doesn make a difference). And best of all, you save money, currently making a big pan of soup from the stock which I cooked a gammon joint in. The stock was a by product of the cooking, the lentils were very cheap and so the main cost is the gas and best of all, the smell is making my tummy growl with anticipation!

[Paul Wagland]

Thank you Mina and Alison - you've summed-up my own views very eloquently!

It's absolutely the rate of the change that's important - previous climate shifts have either happened over hundreds of thousands of years (and influenced evolution as a result) or they've been as (or more) rapid than our current efforts (ie volcanic, meteor strike etc) and come close to wiping out life on Earth!

Human-induced climate change is no longer just a theory - it is recognised scientific fact, backed-up by a thousand forms of evidence from all over the World.

The old line that 'there's nothing to be done so why bother trying' has been used historically in Nazi Germany, by the slave trade, during the struggle for female emancipation etc etc. Such problems can be overcome only by collective will and action.

[smallblueplanet]

Its very depressing the number of people who seem to be of the opinion that the world is here just for them to exploit, and so anything goes. Like Lovelock I have a great feeling for the interconnectedness of all things - for me 'we are stardust...'

Paul's right, and collective will has to start somewhere and that's with each of us.

[pigletwillie]

A bit picky I know Paul but the climate change is human accelerated not human induced. We cannot stop it but we can slow down our contribution to it.

With us all being gardeners, the reuse, recycle, reduce ethos comes to the fore, be it with Alisons soup making or our composting every scrap of paper, cardboard, food waste or packaging that we can. That collective will juts needs a bit more spread and soon it will make a big difference.

[mina.magpie]

Sadly I have to disagree David. There are two huge drivers in this breakdown, neither of which we can really impact save through political action. Firstly, it's the Industrial Revolution and what came after that got us into this mess, and for us to have any chance of changing the future, they need to come to the table in a big way, which they aren't doing. The other big factor is population. When the Industrial Revolution started in the 1800's, the world population was about 1.5 billion. Thomas Malthus predicted that the earth's maximum population capacity wasn't much more than that, and the only reason he was proven false was because we invented modern agriculture, which is entirely based on petroleum. This planet simply CANNOT support that many people without exactly the industries that are hastening climate change.

It's gonna sound positively fascist, but at this point, the only thing I can see working are worldwide restrictions on having kids along the lines of China, along with governments being forced by their populace into forcing the huge corporates to change their ways and major cutting back on the resources individuals consume. I can't see that happening, so I believe there are very difficult times ahead for us and all the species unfortunate enough to have evolved along with us.

Mina.

[pigletwillie]

Population certainly is key, when the oil does run out and starvation and cold and rising sea levels has cleared out several billion of us, perhaps then we will have a stable population that the planet can sustain. It will certainly be on a more basic level than todays.

[Jardiniere]

ive just read all these threads and my brain hurts......dont know who i agree with....dont know that I know anything......i've escaped into the life i wanted since i was a 21 year old hippy....meanwhile life got in the way......and my philosophy is hardly any different than it was then...self sufficiency as much as possible.....reduce waste....mend and make do....blah blah ......have given up on the communal free love tho.(or has it given up on me?)
Righthten thats the end of this thread...i usually manage to kill them stone dead....................

[beefy]

So were blaming -let me take a quick look here -
Cows
Industrial Revolution
Modern Agriculture
Wild Animals
Farting Husbands
Penguins (I think)
Sprouts / baked beans/ JA's
and terrier
Sorry if i missed anything I'm sure you will let me know.

So it's all somebody elses fault and we can't do anything about it - is it just me or is this starting to sound like children telling tales on each other "He did it", "It wasn't me" "Why should I be punished for something somebody else did?"

I had more to say but honestly - I can't be bothered.

[bubblewrap]

We are mostly women on here, we have lots to talk about! One thing leads to another. Perhaps a little lateral thinking thrown into the blend of things and the topic changes a little! Then like Chinese whispers the next person adds to what the first person said and there you go. We go from climate change to bloomers!

But I don't grow flowers you can't eat them!