Is it us, or does it just happen?

[BrideXIII]

So were blaming -let me take a quick look here -
Cows
Industrial Revolution
Modern Agriculture
Wild Animals
Farting Husbands
Penguins (I think)
Sprouts / baked beans/ JA's
and terrier
Sorry if i missed anything I'm sure you will let me know.

So it's all somebody elses fault and we can't do anything about it - is it just me or is this starting to sound like children telling tales on each other "He did it", "It wasn't me" "Why should I be punished for something somebody else did?"

I had more to say but honestly - I can't be bothered.

you missed people who have children

i think we have moved on a little from the original question, which seemed to be.

Did humans Cause climate change?

the consensus seems to be no, but we are accelerating it's effects.

I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't care, or try to help slow things down, I personally don't think it will make enough difference in the long run, the human race is doomed eventually, and that doesn't damage the planet in any way.

[mina.magpie]

So were blaming -let me take a quick look here -
Cows
Industrial Revolution
Modern Agriculture
Wild Animals
Farting Husbands
Penguins (I think)
Sprouts / baked beans/ JA's
and terrier

Actually sweetie, I think most of those are us. We're the buggers who eat the cows, consume the products, eat the mass-produced corn/rice/wheat, and fart. Well okay, our husbands/boyfriends do. (thank goodness I'm single, so I can't even get blamed by association for that one)

Far from passing the buck I think this is acknowledging that we're the ones, collectively, shooting the poor thing.

Mina.

[piskieinboots]

...the human race is doomed ...

aye Cap't Mainwaring - we're all doomed
*pours large malt

[BrideXIII]

*joins Piskie on the 'doomed' sofa *

[bubblewrap]

BW joins the crowd with an Old Speckled Hen!

[SarzWix]

So it's all somebody elses fault and we can't do anything about it - is it just me or is this starting to sound like children telling tales on each other "He did it", "It wasn't me" "Why should I be punished for something somebody else did?"

I had more to say but honestly - I can't be bothered.

C'mon Beefy, you know some of those were tongue in cheek, and surely you've been around this forum long enough to know that the vast majority of us are doing our best to change things.

However, we are also acknowledging that A) The changes we make individually are not enough to fix the damage, and B) the climate will change anyway, regardless.

I think the best things we can do are;
VOTE!! A lot is in the hands of the politicians, and we ought to give our votes to the ones who give a cr*p.
Teach Our Children, how to cope without plastics, not to buy stuff just for the sake of it, how to grow & cook real food. and not to waste stuff.

The people who live in this country should also do boat building courses, and move to the top of hills

[Birdie Wife]

It's gonna sound positively fascist, but at this point, the only thing I can see working are worldwide restrictions on having kids along the lines of China, along with governments being forced by their populace into forcing the huge corporates to change their ways and major cutting back on the resources individuals consume. I can't see that happening, so I believe there are very difficult times ahead for us and all the species unfortunate enough to have evolved along with us.

Mina.

I tend to agree with you mina, and no government is going to get elected on the pledge to reduce population size. It's up to us to accept responsibility for our own actions and choose to only have one or two kids. Sady, many teenagers leave school these days with the sole aim to have kids as soon as possible so the government will pay them benefit money so they don't need to get a job. I hope no-one takes offence at that (I kow how hard it is for single mums) but there are too many kids out there like that, and the cycle just perpetuates itself.

[BrideXIII]

I tend to agree with you mina, and no government is going to get elected on the pledge to reduce population size. It's up to us to accept responsibility for our own actions and choose to only have one or two kids. Sady, many teenagers leave school these days with the sole aim to have kids as soon as possible so the government will pay them benefit money so they don't need to get a job. I hope no-one takes offence at that (I kow how hard it is for single mums) but there are too many kids out there like that, and the cycle just perpetuates itself.

but does it\?

if you believe that the planet and all species on it regulate themselves to fit the enviroment?

infertility is up, people are having less children than 200 years ago, are we evolving to fit the enviroment?

[Alison]

So am I OK now claiming that we don't have kids to help save the world when for years we've just been honest and said that we don't want the little blighters?

Oh yes and although the average no of kids per woman has dropped considerably, so, thankfully has the number of infant deaths.

[SarzWix]

Population Growth Rate Country Comparison Table - Yahoo! Education

If you click on the above link, then click the 'Population Growth Rate' title on the top of the table, it lists which country's populations are growing the fastest. The UK's population growth rate is nowhere near the top, in fact it is lower than the US, Norway, France, Netherlands & other EU countries, China (who have those laws!)... In fact, our pop growth rate is so low that there might not be enough workforce to sustain the N.I. contributions which will pay our pensions.
The 'single mothers on benefits' of which you speak may be the ones keeping our population up! And I think a lot of that is probably Daily Mail exaggeration....
The countries whose population explosions are causing problems are the ones who are third world or borderline according to that table.

[Rocketron]

but does it\?

if you believe that the planet and all species on it regulate themselves to fit the enviroment?

infertility is up, people are having less children than 200 years ago, are we evolving to fit the enviroment?

Unfortunately, we spend millions on "treatment" for this. Why can't people accept their lot ?

[Hashette]

but does it\?

if you believe that the planet and all species on it regulate themselves to fit the enviroment?

infertility is up, people are having less children than 200 years ago, are we evolving to fit the enviroment?

Just had a read back and this debate is really interesting. All my life I've had to put up with people telling me that chosing not to have children is selfish - I never did quite understand that one, but it's nice to see that things have changed

[Hashette]

Cross post, I'm not the world's fastest typist

*clinks glasses with Alison*

[valmarg]

My understanding is that climate change is cyclical. Scientists say that the reason there is warming at the moment is because we are coming out of a cold spell.

Almost 100 years ago the ice caps melted more dramatically that they are doing at the moment. The ice floes drifted into the Atlantic, and one iceberg bumped into a ship called the Titanic.

Apparently Mars is going through a period of 'global warming' at the moment. There can't be many 4x4s and cows farting causing that.

I was listening to a radio programme recently, and the speaker said he had gone to a presentation on global warming/climate change, and he was amazed to find that there was not one scientist on the platform.

The trouble with global warming/climate change is that it has been hijacked by the politicians as an excuse to increase taxes.

Pardon me if I'm a bit sceptical.

valmarg

[Glutton4...]

...we've just been honest and said that we don't want the little blighters

...people telling me that chosing not to have children is selfish...

Me too - why do people think you're weird for not having or wanting kids?

(Can't clink glasses - I'm on the waggon!)