Does anyone support Brown ?

[bubblewrap]

You could always vote for ME! I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
YouTube - Alice Cooper Elected

[sarraceniac]

There might be a solution, but not the one Gordon Brown is trying to impliment.
The Banks went bust, nearly, because of too much borrowing.
Yet the Government are borrowing more (with our money), and they are trying to bail out the banks (with our money) so that borrowing can get back to normal.
Have you heard any politician saying that we were borrowing too much? And we need to let things sort themselves out, and have less borrowing in the future.
Or even changing the banking rules?

Has anyone tried voting for a non-main-stream party, before giving up on voting.

The Green Party, raving loonies, BNP, Libertarian !

FG

Yes I did think of voting raving loony on the grounds that they were the only ones telling the truth.

A few years ago we were (nearly) all saying that Gordon Brown was the best chancellor of the 20th century In fact most independent economists are still saying it. They are also saying that Norman Lamont (from another party) was the worst. This man is now the person on the news today telling us how to deal with the situation - do nothing. (Anybody remember his 18% lending rate?)

Nothing against the Conservatives, I was going to vote for them until I realised that their official answer was 'Do nothing'. Just something against idiots like Lamont. On their side Lawson had some sense. Strange that every other Government in the world is using Brown's tactics (including the super right wing G.W. Bush) and nobody (apart from the British Conservatives) believe that the best thing is 'Do nothing'.

[Rhona]

'Do nothing'.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing..."

Don't actually think 'evil' is quite the right word here though... maybe replace with 'global economic meltdown'

[BrideXIII]

sometimes doing nothing is just a holding strategy, and sometimes that is just what needed economically?

[pigletwillie]

The Conservative view is not "do nothing"

To quote George Osborne

"Let me set out now what their response should have been - and what our response will be when a Conservative Government is elected.

In the short term, our institutional arrangements need reform. It goes without saying that the Northern Rock crisis needs resolving now - indeed should have been brought to a resolution back in September. But we also need to improve dramatically the supervision of liquidity and make the Bank of England stronger and more independent by, among other things, giving it the power to rescue future Northern Rocks.

In the medium term we need to sort out our public finances. And we must reform the failed fiscal rules so that never again do we borrow in a boom and leave our economy so
exposed to a downturn.

And in the long term Britain needs a new supply side revolution, that brings greater flexibility and more competitive tax rates to our economy, because flexible economies are more stable economies."

[sarraceniac]

The Conservative view is not "do nothing"

To quote George Osborne

"Let me set out now what their response should have been - and what our response will be when a Conservative Government is elected.

In the short term, our institutional arrangements need reform. It goes without saying that the Northern Rock crisis needs resolving now - indeed should have been brought to a resolution back in September. But we also need to improve dramatically the supervision of liquidity and make the Bank of England stronger and more independent by, among other things, giving it the power to rescue future Northern Rocks.

In the medium term we need to sort out our public finances. And we must reform the failed fiscal rules so that never again do we borrow in a boom and leave our economy so
exposed to a downturn.

And in the long term Britain needs a new supply side revolution, that brings greater flexibility and more competitive tax rates to our economy, because flexible economies are more stable economies."

Exactly. To paraphrase - The market will right itself this time, and for the future, we just tweak the system a bit.

As far as helping pensioners and the lower paid and people losing their homes NOW we should quoting Lady (then Mrs.) Thatcher (twice) who, unlike George Osborne, was once in a position to do something, 'The market must be completely free' and 'You can't buck the market'.

I agree that as far as possible, this situation must be avoided in the future. Messrs Blair and Brown were clearly spinning their usual cr@p when they announced that they had conquered boom and bust. By the very nature of capitalist economics you HAVE to have boom and bust (or to use political spin 'the market adjusting itself'). I am certainly not going to speak against capitalism, like our Parliamentary democracy it is way ahead of whatever comes second but I do not believe that you can just let the market control itself. That is what Ted Heath called 'The unacceptable face of capitalism'. But it is what Norman Lamont believes and if you dig through what the current Conservative leadership is saying what they believe also. 'Let's tweak the system a bit but don't try to manipulate it. It is a good job for the States (and the then world economy) that FDR did not accept this when he introduced New Deal and interfered like mad to get money back into the world economy in the 1930s. Obama is obviously going to continue what G.W. has started (probably accelerate it) and interfere. An Australian friend has just told me (she is a pensioner) that the Australian Govt. has just given her $A1,000 extra. And I hear that the British Govt. is going to give British pensioners £60 , one day. This was announced 3 times in 3 different ways in Alistair Darling's pre-budget report. (All the pensioners I know thought they were getting £180 until they realised that it was just spin).

As you may gather I don't hold much (any) truck with politicians but I do believe that Brown's answer to dealing with the CURRENT financial crisis is rather better than Cameron's who is busy saying how to deal with future crises. His answer to the current one and helping people hit by it is to say it is all Brown's fault (which it isn't, but that is politics) and do nothing.

Just for the record the Lib Dems have the answers to this. They have the answers to everything . That is so easy when you can just say what people want to hear and will not have to worry about implementing it.

[maytreefrannie]

Over here, the government added 0.5% to VAT. That is a small increase but it made people feel things were going to be more expensive, some small businesses absorbed it because of the probs of re-pricing everything before Christmas. Still, it was not an incentive to get money circulating, it just made people cross and fed up.

Many here consider Gordon B's action of reducing VAT to be a good one for getting people spending - at least it's encouraging.

Sorry for poking the nose in - not at all trying to say what SHOULD be done, just observing that I guess we're all pretty much in the same boat.

[sarraceniac]

Over here, the government added 0.5% to VAT. That is a small increase but it made people feel things were going to be more expensive, some small businesses absorbed it because of the probs of re-pricing everything before Christmas. Still, it was not an incentive to get money circulating, it just made people cross and fed up.

Many here consider Gordon B's action of reducing VAT to be a good one for getting people spending - at least it's encouraging.

Sorry for poking the nose in - not at all trying to say what SHOULD be done, just observing that I guess we're all pretty much in the same boat.

The trouble with Brown/Darling VAT cuts is that many smaller companies have not passed them on. For example, my local Morrison's passed them on with VAT rated goods immediately but my (even more local) smallish supermarket chain did not. The limited company that owns that chain is itself owned by a local family.The father used to be the (Conservative) MP for Redcar and of the two sons one is a local Conservative councillor and the other one has been rejected 4 times by the local electorate, once in a safe Tory seat. Lol. That could be because he is well known locally as the guy who gave philanthropy lessons to Ebenezer Scrooge (well before that Christmas). I know them socially and one of the brothers did say to me that a couple of percent off VAT rated goods would make no difference to their shops because they were suburban and in a monopoly situation, so they might as well just keep the money. Come to think of it I have not noticed any price changes in standard goods at my local Wilko's either. Has anybody else?

Oh and speaking for myself maytreefanny, don't worry about putting in points. I personally hope that this discussion is just a friendly exchange of views. But then I never did understand politics.

[willowstar]

I just got back from a truly eye opening trip to Cuba...and my main thought when I was over there was about how great our country really is. We haven't got it perfect but I think we have managed to strike a pretty good balance between outright capitalism and the alternative. we have a pretty good welfare system and our health care system is excellent compared to so many others around the world. sure, things could be better but I genuinely think that we have a pretty good approach in the UK to looking our for the vulnerable but encouraging people to thrive. this current global crisis is a exactly that, a global crisis, brought about by greed in my opinion. in the ebb and flow of life this was surely bound to happen to bring about a bit more balance? I do travel abroad and one of the reasons I do it is to learn about other countries and other cultures. We have a lot to learn from each other but I always end up coming back and feeling very grateful for what we have here in this country.

[miffy]

I was listening to a radio 4 article on the way home the other night, i only caught the back end of it but they were discussing the epidemic that has swept the world of Afluenza which has infected everyone and meant they have lusted after consumables and new conservatories etc wanting to appear to be more afluent hence the afluenza.
However now the bubble has burst people are realising that all these things are worthless and that it is the simple things that really matter like snuggling up to your little one to read them a bedtime story or growing your own food and cooking really harty meals, did you know that the sale of wooden cooking spoons has gone up by 250% as folk are making stews and soups.
So it is pretty grotty for alot of folk, us included but i reackon some good might come out of it if people realise they can't buy happiness and value, friendship, love and happiness above a flash car and designer gear. I am a buddhist so i always try to see the good in bad stuff,not always easy though i know. I don't vote just try to make the world better one day and one dead at a time.