Originally posted by BrideXIII
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Does anyone support Brown ?
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comes back on us twice, we paid for those billions in the first place through our taxes, then we get charged interest on what we borrow of our own money ? scary really just how many ways there are to shaft us.
and what is really annoying, is those 'billions' were so not available for the national health system, or education? but suddenly when they need to bail out a few banks, voila!! loadsa dosh?Last edited by BrideXIII; 08-01-2009, 10:32 PM.Vive Le Revolution!!!'Lets just stick it in, and see what happens?'Cigarette FREE since 07-01-09
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Originally posted by mrsc2b View PostStrange ain't it, Mr Brown (as televised) says that we can now borrow on the many billions given to bail the banks out? Debt creates money! They bail the banks out creating a debt to the Government (from the bank) or whoever they believe gave them the money and then, they (the banks) charge interest back to them on a debt they already owe? The burden of the debt therefore, comes back to us!
There does seem to be something fundamentally wrong with the bonus structure that is paid to bankers etc. I mean if your bonus is dictated by the amount of money you make for your company, then as long as you work within the "rules" you are incentivised to make as much money as possible. This will lead to greater risks being taken (ie sub prime lending). For a few years, this will probably work, but as the current crisis shows us when those deals go bust, the house of cards collapses. But think about it - the individuals who were instrumental in the "risky deals" probably earnt huge bonuses all the time they were doing well, but they aren't asked to pay back their bonuses when it all goes wrong. This seems wrong to me as you can basically make risky investments where the consequences won't be known for a number of years, but until that time you can earn huge bonuses. And when it does go wrong - well you've got a tidy sum stashed away.
I have a distinct lack of trust for banks / investment companies now because whilst they may be the engine room of our whole economy they don't seem to fully appreciate how their actions impact on that. I often think that because of this they should be nationalised, but have concluded that this isn't the best solution. However if that isn't going to happen then there must be tighter regulation which holds people to account and prevents banks from acting in an irresponsible manner.
It is the goverments job to protect us and they will be negligent if they don't do it. What disturbs me is that when the "crunch" first started to have an impact, there seemed to be a general acceptance that things would have to change within the banking industry, but as time has moved on that momentum seems to have disappeared. I think there is a danger that no new regulations will be introduced and that this situation could arise again
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Originally posted by Mcbee View Postbankers ... make as much money as possible. This will lead to greater risks being taken (ie sub prime lending). For a few years, this will probably work, but as the current crisis shows us when those deals go bust, the house of cards collapses.
He concluded that the rate of profit would fall even as the economy grew. When the rate of profit falls below a certain point, the result would be a recession or depression
(I'm not a Marxist or a communist, I just did a bit for Sociology A Level)All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.
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Originally posted by jackie j View Post...If I earn my money I want to be able to spend it on what I want, not more taxes etc. ...
So, have we decided if he should be placed in the stocks or not?aka
Suzie
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Okay, I'm rolling up my shirt sleeves and wading in, I come from a Labour heartland and there is one thing you need to know about Labour, they have nothing to do with their founding principals. They are not socialist, in fact I have seen three successive generations of my family betrayed by Labour and their policies. Really, none of you expected Labour to destroy the economy? When Brown was Chancellor, he showed a gross wanton attitude to economics, Labour created PFIs (which are another form of debt and all those lovely new hospitals and schools are not owned by us, they will one day be taken over by the real private owners and then, and many private company in PFIs have admitted this, they will call in the debt and will address the fact of whether the PFIs run at a loss or gain. In other words, if they run at a loss, they will be axed).
So, yet again Labour has looked to the short term. They never banished bang and bust economics, they merely used our gold reserves (which they sold at the lowest point, losing us billions of pounds) to boost the economy. Whose idea was this? Gordon Browns.
Last time Labour was in, they devalued the currency, and shillings where lost - this had nothing to do with decimilisation but to save us from recession. How long before Brown suggests the Euro?
Instead of boosting the economy, they have boosted bureaucracy and the spin on how much we are in debt by is ludicrous, it does not take into account bail out of banks, public ownership of banks and PFIs (which is the biggy and has major interest that will added along the way).
Labour say that we in debt by six hundred and forty billion pounds (unmoderated figures state that we are in the red by over two trillion, taking into account PFIs and public ownership). This will mean, with Brown's plans to borrow more, that your great grandchildren will be paying back the debt, that local councils cannot recoup much of their loss and that over the next 5 years you will see a scaling back of public services to a level that has not been seen since before the founding of the NHS.
And you think Labour is new to this? They've done it before, it was Labours mute handling of the Unions in the 70s, that led to the economic downturn of the 80s. Thatcher may have been hailed as the destroyer of the mines but it is Labour who sounded there death knell.
Now, these are just broad strokes and there is no definitive answer to solving political and social problems in a society built on capitalism (you should never marry it to democracy). I am not saying that the Tories or the Liberals will do any better, what I am saying is that party politics does not work, that we are creating a systems with no alternatives. I think party politics shouldn't be in councils, that these should be independent, there may be an argument for party politics on a national level but not on a local. But that is another argument.
The very problem we are in now, is a direct result of Brown's time as the Chancellor, and of Labours softly, softly, spin touch under Blair.
Regardless of that, it is Labour as a party that is the biggest problem, they are not socialists, and the old adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts all is more than apparent in this party. If they told you the truth tomorrow, you wouldn't believe them and that says alot.
I don't think Brown should go, I think he whole damn party should go and that they should readdress politics on a whole to not just consider what will happen in the next 4 years but what will happen in the next 4 centuries. We should be laying down plans, systems and structures that will benefit us a thousand years from now and get away from the want this attitude.Last edited by andrewo; 09-01-2009, 11:44 AM.Best wishes
Andrewo
Harbinger of Rhubarb tales
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Originally posted by Two_Sheds View PostPolitical parties are like railway companies though .. they only expect to have the reins for one term (perhaps two) so they don't make long-term investment.
Exactly Two Sheds. And horror of horrors, instead of doing the 'right' thing they have to pander to the great unwashed masses. The electorate. So they can lie, and next week (a week is a long time in politics) say they did not mean that at all.
We have a local councillor who was elected in his first term on the promise of DEFINITELY stopping a local development. Within 2 weeks of being elected he had joined the committee to plan the development. 'Things had changed' he said 4 years later at the next election. Result. Bigger majority.
So to get back to the original question about Gordon Brown - Yes. Many people do support Gordon Brown. He is no big a liar then any other politician. Me? I used to vote as duty at every election. But never again. I no longer believe any of them.Why didn't Noah just swat those 2 greenflies?
Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together?
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>If flying is so safe, why do they call the airport the terminal?
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There are no simple solutions.A simple dude trying to grow veg. http://haywayne.blogspot.com/
BLOG UPDATED! http://haywayne.blogspot.com/2012/01...ar-demand.html 30/01/2012
Practise makes us a little better, it doesn't make us perfect.
What would Vedder do?
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In fact, I'd go as far as to say there are no solutions.A simple dude trying to grow veg. http://haywayne.blogspot.com/
BLOG UPDATED! http://haywayne.blogspot.com/2012/01...ar-demand.html 30/01/2012
Practise makes us a little better, it doesn't make us perfect.
What would Vedder do?
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Originally posted by HeyWayne View PostIn fact, I'd go as far as to say there are no solutions.Vive Le Revolution!!!'Lets just stick it in, and see what happens?'Cigarette FREE since 07-01-09
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Originally posted by HeyWayne View Post
In fact, I'd go as far as to say there are no solutions.
The Banks went bust, nearly, because of too much borrowing.
Yet the Government are borrrowing more (with our money), and they are trying to bail out the banks (with our money) so that borrowing can get back to normal.
Have you heard any politician saying that we were borrowing too much? And we need to let things sort themselves out, and have less borrowing in the future.
Or even changing the banking rules?
Has anyone tried voting for a non-main-stream party, before giving up on voting.
The Green Party, raving loonies, BNP, Libertarian !
FG
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