Swine flu

[HayleyB]

Is that tongues

[hmk]

MrsC. All age ranges and every person can be and will be infected BUT those in the age range of 18 - 40 have strong immune systems and the immune system, in this instance, over-reacts and therefore causes damage to the body. This is not to say that the young and the elderly will all survive, or that those in the 18 - 40 age range will all die, just that those in this age band will statistically be more likely to sucumb to the worst effects. This is what happened in previous pandemics in 1918 and, I believe, in the late 50s which badly affected the British army on the Rhine, soldiers living in close proximity and usually being in the 'right' age range.

I agree, well put, however a virologist on the radio said they'd all been arguing about this at Swine Flu HQ, or wherever they all meet.
He didn't mention the 1950's, but in the 1918 outbreak some experts think more 18-40 year olds died than would have been expected. More elderly, infirm and young died overall, it's just that the age group which would normally be virtually unscathed had significant casualties, which is unusual.

But like I said, they can't even decide about it, or what it means for us now...

Also (and I haven't read the whole thread properly, so apologies if I'm being repetitive) in 1918 we'd just had a major war, nutrition and living standards were generally worse and antibiotics were more than a decade away, let alone antivirals.

HTH (!)

HMK

[Alison]

IAlso (and I haven't read the whole thread properly, so apologies if I'm being repetitive) in 1918 we'd just had a major war, nutrition and living standards were generally worse and antibiotics were more than a decade away, let alone antivirals.

Isn't there some talk that actually kids were healthier during the war than they are now, no junk food, walked everywhere etc? Obviously a generalisation but something to think about generally.

[bluemoon]

I agree, well put, however a virologist on the radio said they'd all been arguing about this at Swine Flu HQ, or wherever they all meet.
He didn't mention the 1950's, but in the 1918 outbreak some experts think more 18-40 year olds died than would have been expected. More elderly, infirm and young died overall, it's just that the age group which would normally be virtually unscathed had significant casualties, which is unusual.

But like I said, they can't even decide about it, or what it means for us now...

Also (and I haven't read the whole thread properly, so apologies if I'm being repetitive) in 1918 we'd just had a major war, nutrition and living standards were generally worse and antibiotics were more than a decade away, let alone antivirals.

HTH (!)

HMK

You're right HMK, we are rather in the dark and largely making assumptions about what has gone before and what we think has gone before. When I had virology lectures (many years ago) the prof who gave the series on influenza - who at the time was considered the top 'flu expert in the country - would have staked his career on the 1918 pandemic being caused by the H5N1 strain. Whether this was his own private theory or what was generally thought at the time, I couldn't now say. But it goes to prove that much of what we 'know' about the 1918 pandemic is current medical science looking back to a time when much less was known about the virus, and making an educated guess.
Also one of the most frightening aspects (for me, at any rate) of the 1918 pandemic was the speed at which the virus could kill those in the young-and-healthy age bracket.

[hmk]

Isn't there some talk that actually kids were healthier during the war than they are now, no junk food, walked everywhere etc? Obviously a generalisation but something to think about generally.

Second world war, yes almost certainly. I'm sure I've read somewhere that we were at our healthiest during rationing because it was fat and sugar that we reduced.
I think WW1 was different though. And a big factor was the drugs. Without antibiotics you can't even treat potentially life threatening secondary (bacterial) infections.

bluemoon-
H5N1? And yet the media make that sound as though it spontaneously mutated in a chicken in Asia

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

HMK

[bluemoon]

bluemoon-
H5N1? And yet the media make that sound as though it spontaneously mutated in a chicken in Asia

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

HMK

EEK, when I wrote this I had thought that the scientists were saying it was H1N1, didn't realize that H5N1 had reared its ugly head. That'll teach me for not watching telly. Looks like the old boy might have been right then. Though it probably did occur in a bird or pig in Asia, it's not so much a mutation as a re-assortment. Bit like pulling apart two lego bricks and sticking one of them onto another one of a pair that has also just been pulled apart - rubbish analogy, but you sort of get the idea. But, fundamentally, nothing in any of the bricks changes, they just make something different.... of course they'd have to be different colours or something and..... forget I started this.

[Capsid]

Second world war, yes almost certainly. I'm sure I've read somewhere that we were at our healthiest during rationing because it was fat and sugar that we reduced.
I think WW1 was different though. And a big factor was the drugs. Without antibiotics you can't even treat potentially life threatening secondary (bacterial) infections.

bluemoon-
H5N1? And yet the media make that sound as though it spontaneously mutated in a chicken in Asia

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

HMK

It's not that simple to be able to associate diet with good health. Infant mortality has decreased and life expectancy has increased since WWII.

The First Measured Century: Timeline: Data - Mortality

The appearance of a potential pandemic flu virus is due to it recombining with other flu viruses and this is what the press would describe as spontaneous since this virus has not been seen before. And all pandemic viruses are derived from A type influenza viruses which have their origin in birds.

[MrsC]

It's not that simple to be able to associate diet with good health. Infant mortality has decreased and life expectancy has increased since WWII.

The First Measured Century: Timeline: Data - Mortality

The appearance of a potential pandemic flu virus is due to it recombining with other flu viruses and this is what the press would describe as spontaneous since this virus has not been seen before. And all pandemic viruses are derived from A type influenza viruses which have their origin in birds.

Hi Capsid,

...but isn't that what we are told, '5 a day' and all that? re - diet with good health. Infant mortality/life expectancy has increased since WWII as you say, totally agree but so has the population since 1900

Capsid, if you don't mind me asking, would you vaccinate your own children or yourself against this? Presumptious of me to assume you have children (not being nosy) just asking, if you don't then maybe nieces and nephews?

[Capsid]

Hi Capsid,

...but isn't that what we are told, '5 a day' and all that? re - diet with good health. Infant mortality/life expectancy has increased since WWII as you say, totally agree but so has the population since 1900

The infant mortality/life expectancy are given as rates per 1000 of the population.

Capsid, if you don't mind me asking, would you vaccinate your own children or yourself against this? Presumptious of me to assume you have children (not being nosy) just asking, if you don't then maybe nieces and nephews?

Yes I would, I also get the annual flu shot and my eldest son gets it too. Why do you ask?

Are you going to provide the information about the rumour that the swine flu was made in a lab?

[NOG]

I would not vaccinate at the moment...I would wait to see if the death toil increases first.

[Capsid]

I would not vaccinate at the moment...I would wait to see if the death toil increases first.

A vaccine won't be available for 6 months anyway.

[NOG]

thats why I wont have it now.

[MrsC]

There is no vaccine according to the media etc, but why would the British Government stock pile Tamiflu? What is the point of giving people Tamiflu and stock piling it? It won't work will it, it's an anti-viral? If they don't have a vaccine, then why stock pile it? Don't make sense to me? They said Tamfilu would do the job and that's why they stock piled it? Whats the point of doing this if it doesn't work?

YouTube - "Swine Flu Was Cultured In A Laboratory", Dr. John Carlo, Dallas Co. Medical Director says

[Capsid]

There is no vaccine according to the media etc, but why would the British Government stock pile Tamiflu? What is the point of giving people Tamiflu and stock piling it? It won't work will it, it's an anti-viral? If they don't have a vaccine, then why stock pile it? Don't make sense to me? They said Tamfilu would do the job and that's why they stock piled it? Whats the point of doing this if it doesn't work?

YouTube - "Swine Flu Was Cultured In A Laboratory", Dr. John Carlo, Dallas Co. Medical Director says

The doctor in the Youtube simply says it was cultured in a laboratory, NOT manufactured. It's very easy to grow influenza in chicken eggs. This swine flu was cultured in the lab in order to characterise it so that a vaccine can be made from it.

Tamiflu is an antiviral, influenza is a virus, of course it works.

[FionaH]

HE did not say it ORIGINATED in a lab. It is obvious that this virus would be TESTED in a lab surely?