Kids, Games and Age Ratings

[Two_Sheds]

Sorry Sarz, but violent children and gangs have nothing to do with what they see on the telly or PC.

Twas me, not Sarz.
So ... why do we have gangs of kids in London etc, behaving like the Crips? Carrying guns, raping girl gang members, stabbing other kids?

All behaviour is learned.

[pdblake]

Twas me, not Sarz.
So ... why do we have gangs of kids in London etc, behaving like the Crips? Carrying guns, raping girl gang members, stabbing other kids?

All behaviour is learned.

Sorry Sarz, must have been looking cross-eyed again

TS: I live in a small town in East Yorkshire. Yes, we have a few bad kids but the vast majority are alright. There aren't any feral gangs that I've heard of. No regular rapes or stabbings.

Do they get different movies and computer games in London? Could it not be that these kids in London are born into sink estates where gangs are the norm simply because no one ever bothered to stop them, and now, what with every little kid from 6 to 16 knowing their rights inside out, no one 'can' stop them.

[HeyWayne]

Twas me, not Sarz.
So ... why do we have gangs of kids in London etc, behaving like the Crips? Carrying guns, raping girl gang members, stabbing other kids?

All behaviour is learned.

Bloods/Crips, skinheads/punks, Yiddishers/East End Mob, Triads/Maffia.

Gangs and Gang culture have been around for hundreds of years - way before TV and computers came along.

[SarzWix]

Thank you everyone

I've found out 'why' the game has an 18 rating as opposed to a 15 - there's a particularly horrible 'mission' which involves infiltrating a 'terrorist group' and you have to witness a massacre of civilians It is possible to skip this part.

I'm thinking that this:

You could always say he can have it; but the pay off is to bring the Xbox downstairs so that you can monitor.....and let him decide.

And if he strops at that one - tell him he has made the decision himself as if he isn't grown up enough to make a rational decision about which one would favour him best, then he is not old enough to play 18 rated games...

is probably the best compromise. And, he's going to have to wait for Christmas to get it, with exemplary behaviour between now and then to prove that he's mature enough to cope with it.


It does worry me a bit in the psychology research where it talks about 'desensitisation' (sp?) to violence when kids spend too long playing this sort of game, so I think I might need to tighten up the rules on time playing the games. Especially difficult in winter though - playing footie and going out on his bike after school becomes impracticle in the dark and wet so he usually turns more to the games and the PC...

[Two_Sheds]

Gangs and Gang culture have been around for hundreds of years - way before TV and computers came along.

Maybe so: but on such a large scale?
I'm not saying that TV and video games cause violence, but what they do is normalise it, and desensitise a person to violence. There have always been paedophiles: but the internet has made such material more freely available, and encourages more people to use it.

I'm not 'against' the internet, far from it; I am against the proliferation of extreme violence perpetrating as entertainment. I am also against the 'normalisation' of extreme porn. In our day, you got to see naughty stuff if you knew where to look/who to ask. These days, children are regularly viewing material in their homes, or on their phones, that is grossly offensive to most people. And they are copying that behaviour, because they think it is normal.

[zebedee]

I need some sensible opinions here please chaps.
The new 'Call Of Duty' game is due out tomorrow, and my 12 year old son is going absolutely bananas because I won't buy it for him, because it's been given an 18 rating. The previous ones in the series have been rated 15, and his dad has let him have them. Apparently ALL of his friends have it on pre-order already, and I'm the ONLY one evil enough to put a foot down about it.
(For anyone who doesn't know, Call of Duty is a war game, where you run about shooting and blowing up the opposition.)
Am I being unnecessarily harsh? According to lots of different research, violent games don't engender violence in children, but then, what is the purpose of an age rating?!

I really need a decent arguement to put forward here - he's far too intelligent to be fobbed off with 'because I say so', and more than capable of sulking/stropping/arguing/pleading and generally driving me crackers for months

Would you let him have it?

There are scenes in the game that are very questionable indeed, One in particular involves the 'good guys' taking part in a massacre of innocent civilians. You, the player has the choice to take part or condone the killing by not taking part but just watching as your on game colleagues do the killing.

[OllieMartin]

Maybe so: but on such a large scale?
I'm not saying that TV and video games cause violence, but what they do is normalise it, and desensitise a person to violence. There have always been paedophiles: but the internet has made such material more freely available, and encourages more people to use it.

I'm not 'against' the internet, far from it; I am against the proliferation of extreme violence perpetrating as entertainment. I am also against the 'normalisation' of extreme porn. In our day, you got to see naughty stuff if you knew where to look/who to ask. These days, children are regularly viewing material in their homes, or on their phones, that is grossly offensive to most people. And they are copying that behaviour, because they think it is normal.

'Normality' is redefined from one generation to the next. Just as we did and our parents before us. Every generation is concerned that their children are being brought up in a world that is different to the one in which they grew up. It's not necassarily worse, in many aspects it's better, but it's human nature to be concerned about that which is uncertain.

I'd say it can go one of two ways;
1) Our children are unable to deal with these new changes. The increase in gore, explicit content, language etc is too much and we breed a generation of psychologically scarred wrecks who are too scocially inept to continue the species (worst case scenario)
2) They, as each generation before, adapt to deal with these new concerns.

I remember playing with BB guns when I was little. Far too young for them, but then I had 2 older brothers. They weren't something that my parents had had when they were growing up, and they were understandably concerned about them. But my parents didn't ban me from using them because they knew that under supervision it would be much safer than if I played with them in secret.

I think the best argument so far is that a child hidden from such games will only see them round at his friends' and behind his parents' backs. Surely better to keep it out in the open where it can be monitored and policed.
The best argument against is that it is 18 for a reason and without proper discipline accompanying it, could insight behavioural issues.

[Alison]

If at such a young age your child feels that it is acceptable to shout and swear and his friends while playing other games then to me it sounds like he should be playing less not more of such games. If your gut feeling is not to let him have it then that's fine, you're in charge and sometimes the reason can just be "because I say so". You don't always have to have a reason other than that you would rather he didn't have something.

Also, are you actually sure that ALL his friends will have this and are not using exactly the same arguement on their parents?

[HotStuff]

Also, are you actually sure that ALL his friends will have this and are not using exactly the same arguement on their parents?

Good point Alison.

I think moving the XBox downstairs so play can be supervised is the best option.

[SarzWix]

There are scenes in the game that are very questionable indeed, One in particular involves the 'good guys' taking part in a massacre of innocent civilians. You, the player has the choice to take part or condone the killing by not taking part but just watching as your on game colleagues do the killing.

Yes, I know - I read all that on the BBFC website, where they explain why they decided to give it an 18 rating. It also tells you that that part of the game can be skipped altogether.

Also, are you actually sure that ALL his friends will have this and are not using exactly the same arguement on their parents?

At least 2 of them have it already, and another 2 parents have told me their sons are getting it for Christmas. When I asked 'why, when it's 18 rated?' they both said 'Well, it's only a game isn't it? They know it's not real' or words to that effect.

Good point Alison.

I think moving the XBox downstairs so play can be supervised is the best option.

I think that might be the answer too.

[HeyWayne]

I think you gotta do what you think is right for your children.

I know parents who have kept their kid under "strict" supervision. We've known them since he was 5, he's now 17 and let's say "going off the rails" because he's now exposed to a whole world of opportunity that his parents have no control over.

We have other friends who have a kid of a similar age who's been allowed to do pretty much anything he wanted (within reason) from an early age and is completely the opposite.

There are schools of thought that say you should encourage children to test boundaries and perhaps give a little flexibility, and there are others that say obey strict rules and regulations.

I think I'll be somewhere in the middle with Bean.

Sorry, we've digressed slightly.

Bean won't be playing CoD.

There, back on track.

[winstonwobble]

My son has always been allowed the games started off going on with him but he said i was useless! hes going to go on at his mates house anyway so id rather know what hes up to just have a word about it not being real life and in real life when you shoot someone they stay dead they cant just start again my sons 15 now by the way

[Hilary B]

My 2 still accepted 'because I say so" long past 12. (OK sometimes they debated it, but they knew it wasn't going to work).
"look at the language you use after the ones you've got; I'm not having that added to" might be worth a try.

[di]

Crikes...it aint easy being a parent is it!?

I really don't know what I'd do...or rather what I will do when the time comes!)From how you've described the game,I'd like to say there's no way on this earth I'd let them have it...or rather him as I doubt Daisy would be even slightly interested!It actually sounds totally sick to me!
But then as you pointed out,you have memories of being the kid that didn't have or wasn't allowed things & remember how that made you feel & would do anything(almost)to prevent your little ones from feeling the same!

I so know that we're going to have similar disagreements in our house when the time comes...in fact they've already started with regards what TV or DVDs are appropriate for Ash to watch!

I'm afraid I agree with the comments that violent games/films don't help with the way "some" kids act....as said before,they don't necessarily make a good child bad but I'm sure they do desensitize a child(& adults!)to such acts.

So basically....I don't know!Sorry!I agree though that if you do back down & let him have it,then the X box should perhaps be moved downstairs where you can keep an eye on him & also try to restrict how much time he spends on it.

Good Luck Love!x

[Alison]

But then as you pointed out,you have memories of being the kid that didn't have or wasn't allowed things & remember how that made you feel & would do anything(almost)to prevent your little ones from feeling the same!:

There were many things I wasn't allowed as a kid and many I was, I firmly believe that was right and I appreciated the ones I got all the more. The little ones should learn that they can't have everything and so need to feel that sometimes.