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  • #31
    Fi

    You are quite simply a genius!!

    I certainly dont deem myself to be a perfect parent, made mistakes like everyone else, and had good days too. However I now have a fantastic relationship with the adults that my kids have become, so clearly I didnt do too bad.
    Kids who cant behave bug me too, but I dont tut, shake head, make faces etc as I generally dont know the family history. I certainly wouldnt shop elsewhere on the premise of avoiding badly behaved kids, the worst behaved child I have ever met was the son of a certain ambassador when I was in Lebanon, and they most certainly werent short of a few sheckels.

    Having done stuff in schools TS, I appreciate that its not an easy job, I know that teachers and teaching assistants have far less disciplinary powers than they used to, but the last Mrs Leponge's dad was a teacher, and he says the same about when he was teaching. I dont believe todays kids are better or worse behaved overall than when we were younger and the generations before us. I was a shocker as a kid, unteachable, and generally just didnt go. Equally there were the kids who were in school early, ready to learn and wanting to learn. Then you had the ones in the middle. I doubt thats changed much really, what has changed though is our acceptance of what is socially acceptable and what isnt.
    The boundary creeps further forward with each generation. As we accept hearing the "f" word on television, it no longer shocks us. In the not too distant future the other, worse word will be used on mainstream tv, with the regularity of the "f" word today.
    Bob Leponge
    Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

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    • #32
      Bother, I hadn't finished but in the spirit of Christmas I shan't put the rest.
      Bob Leponge
      Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by bobleponge View Post
        Fi

        You are quite simply a genius!!

        I certainly dont deem myself to be a perfect parent, made mistakes like everyone else, and had good days too. However I now have a fantastic relationship with the adults that my kids have become, so clearly I didnt do too bad.
        Kids who cant behave bug me too, but I dont tut, shake head, make faces etc as I generally dont know the family history. I certainly wouldnt shop elsewhere on the premise of avoiding badly behaved kids, the worst behaved child I have ever met was the son of a certain ambassador when I was in Lebanon, and they most certainly werent short of a few sheckels.

        Having done stuff in schools TS, I appreciate that its not an easy job, I know that teachers and teaching assistants have far less disciplinary powers than they used to, but the last Mrs Leponge's dad was a teacher, and he says the same about when he was teaching. I dont believe todays kids are better or worse behaved overall than when we were younger and the generations before us. I was a shocker as a kid, unteachable, and generally just didnt go. Equally there were the kids who were in school early, ready to learn and wanting to learn. Then you had the ones in the middle. I doubt thats changed much really, what has changed though is our acceptance of what is socially acceptable and what isnt.
        The boundary creeps further forward with each generation. As we accept hearing the "f" word on television, it no longer shocks us. In the not too distant future the other, worse word will be used on mainstream tv, with the regularity of the "f" word today.
        Think we are the same wavelength Boble. I tend to think that "give a dog a bad name" applies to all of us. I think the kids of today are great (with just a few exceptions)

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        • #34
          My kids are so well behaved you wouldn't even know they were there!

          I used to be one of the naughty ones who ran around, hitting people, swearing, throwing fruit and pulling things off shelves.
          Apparently that's no way for a 27-year-old to behave!
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          • #35

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bobleponge View Post
              I was a shocker as a kid, unteachable, and generally just didnt go.
              ... and I think that's why you have the laid back attitude that you do.

              Behaviour in schools is worse. When you were at school, you probably had the odd handful who were ... well, a handful. I don't suppose you see many young children these days, at least not en masse.

              I've been in primary school for 5 years now, and every September we see the intake get worse in terms of attention, behaviour and social skills, let alone learning skills.

              Sadly, some parents just don't see it as their job to bring up their children to be responsible (I'm struggling for the right words this morning, my head is full of cold), adults, or they simply don't have the parenting skills, having not learned them from their own parents.
              All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.

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              • #37
                btw, no offence to Bob, whatsoever ^^^

                I am just tired of hearing from those around me, that all the children are badly behaved because of poor schools, rather than poor parenting
                All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by bobleponge View Post
                  Fi

                  You are quite simply a genius!!
                  Why thank you kind Sir

                  Originally posted by Two_Sheds View Post
                  btw, no offence to Bob, whatsoever ^^^

                  I am just tired of hearing from those around me, that all the children are badly behaved because of poor schools, rather than poor parenting
                  Bringing up kids is definitely a parents job! Would like to propose a round of applause for teachers


                  btw just been in Tescos and saw some really nicely behaved littles, not bad for Christmas eve, mine would have been bouncing of the walls!
                  WPC F Hobbit, Shire police

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                  • #39
                    None taken TS I can assure you. You are quite right, I dont see kids en masse so can't comment on their collective behaviour but your point that every term their behaviour is worse is sort of what I meant re bounds of social acceptability changing constantly.

                    Ten years ago they wouldnt have had mobiles in class, nowadays they do. Mobiles have been deemed to be socially acceptable, the bad kids will have theirs out, openly on display texting etc (would have been me in the day) whereas the kids who want to learn wont.
                    20 years ago the amount of young kids that you would have seen on the streets at night would be a lot less than it is today, because the boundaries of social acceptability have moved on from 20 years ago. Whether they have moved in a good way isn't for me to comment, but socially acceptable behaviour has definitely changed over the years, and will continue to do so.
                    Bob Leponge
                    Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Often (another person here who worked in schools till 3 years ago) parents have no idea HOW to discipline their children. I always remember the young lass who slapped her child around the head and shouted "Stop f***ing swearing!" She thought she was teaching her child manners!
                      Whoever plants a garden believes in the future.

                      www.vegheaven.blogspot.com Updated March 9th - Spring

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                      • #41
                        Lead by example is definitely the way to teach kids.
                        Even when you make mistakes, they learn from that too.
                        Some of these kids that get screamed and sworn at will go on to raise their own kids by not wanting to ever scream and swear at them, but mostly they will be exactly like their parents.

                        “If your knees aren't green by the end of the day, you ought to seriously re-examine your life.”

                        "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson

                        Charles Churchill : A dog will look up on you; a cat will look down on you; however, a pig will see you eye to eye and know it has found an equal
                        .

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                        • #42
                          Socially acceptable is the crux here - yes, standards have slipped and are still slipping but whos fault is that - and don't just say 'not mine'.

                          I know this is going to come out all 'bah humbug' but I can't help that.

                          It is all our fault, each and everyone at some stage will have come across the rudness and lack of common decency which abounds everywhere you turn and done nothing. I am as guilty as the rest.

                          Someone falls on an icy pavement - at once the great unspecified 'they' are to blame and no one takes account of the weather!

                          A bill can't be paid - 'they' should look after me better/give better benefits/provide better jobs.. whatever.

                          I know, I'm preaching to the choir here, but there is a point and it is this, if you want to live in a better, more polite and careing world where helping a lost child find its parents won't land you in court you have to make it happen! The great and glorious 'they' are there to look out for themselves - not help anyone else.

                          If you want people to be polite you must be polite - it might not appear to impinge on the unwashed masses who seem not to care but then again it might, and more to the point the kids might notice. So when the little hooligans are tearing up and down the isles and stopping you from getting your shopping try to be calm, a polite 'excuse me!' and a smile can work wonders.

                          It isn't always bad parenting - it can often be thoughtless parenting. They just don't know any other way to behave - show them another way.
                          The weeks and the years are fine. It's the days I can't cope with!

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                          • #43
                            Funny thing happened to me a few months back. When kids are awkward we blame the parents, when they are terrific we think they have been brought up well.

                            I attended a prizegiving for my eldest son, (and lots of others but I wasnt sniffling about them ) The bloke giving the prizes said they were a credit to their parents, well brought up yada yada. Now in the same week I had two phone calls from school about my other son saying they were going to exclude him if he didnt keep his a**e on a seat and behave himself! They asked if there was anything wrong at home, blaming the parents?

                            I think with kids its the luck of the draw and thankfully mine have grown up in spite of me
                            WPC F Hobbit, Shire police

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                            • #44
                              I have been teaching for nearly twenty years and during this time i have seen the decline of basic social skills in both children and their parents.
                              Children are generally loosing the ability to relate to others, to understand cause and effect and to take responsibility for thier own actions.
                              This is learnt behaviour generation on generation. Parenting skills are lost, not handed down. Young parents do not know how to model behaviour, social skills, responsibility because they have not been shown this themselves.
                              There is basically a breakdown in basic social skills.
                              When children therefore come into school teachers need to start to fill in these gaps and establish common skills, language and to teach children how to relate to others even before they can start to teach them how to read and write.
                              People talk alot about the lack of respect in society i think what people really lack is a lack of responsibility for their actions.
                              This is transfered to behaviour, how they treat others, the environment, themselves and responsibility for how they affect others.
                              NOT all young people are like this and NOT all young parents are either, however there is generally a breakdown in the basic parenting and social skills that people need to become responsible members of our community.
                              There is so much talk of it is so and so's fault, i blame the....etc.
                              We are all responsible for our own actions, cause and effect.
                              I am an eternal optimist and this is why i am a teacher, there is a fantastic quote...
                              'Children are the messages we send to a future we will never see'
                              I believe in children and their future and i will continue to invest my time, commitment and sweat and tears to ensure they have the best grounding i can give them for their future lives.
                              I do not have a magic wand and i have dealt with some very challenging parents in the last four months at my new school. However as i have said they have not had the grounding and social skills they need to understand, accept or take on board what needs to be done to help their children so i am holding their hands and taking them on this journey with their children. Many of them are only kids themselves.
                              'A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step'.
                              It is difficult when i am out and about and see children and parents struggling to cope and i have to restrain myself from diving in to help, there is no quick fix here.
                              I do fully understand the frustration of others when they have worked hard to instill certain values and expectations of behaviour in their own children, you have done a fantastic job.
                              I do not feel cross when i see kids behaving badly, i do feel sad though as they have it all to learn.
                              Keep doing what you are doing with your own children we need embassodors with these skills to set an example.
                              I will keeping ploughing on as will many other teachers, educational professionals, social workers, behaviour experts etc... to help parents and their children.
                              We won't be able to fix this overnight as it has been a growing issue for thirty years due to social and economic change but i for one am not going to give up hope.
                              When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the ground easily, it is a valuable plant. ~Author Unknown

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                              • #45
                                And that erudite explanation is roughly what I wanted to say.You have been teaching 20 years and have seen a decline. My ex FiL has been retired for 10 years and was teaching for 40 years before that. The start of every school year would bring a reduction in standards as far as he saw it, wasn't it ever thus?
                                You, as a teacher, will base the kids behaviour upon the standards that you were set as a child, but the kids you teach are a generation on and so their behaviour will be different than yours, so of course you see it as bad, but it needs to be taken in context.
                                Kids aren't any worse behaved today than they were 100 years ago, according to what is socially acceptable. Kids push boundaries, its what they do, its why standards change. Britain today is totally different to Victorian Britain, and perhaps thats not totally a bad thing?
                                If you take the kids behaviour as a whole in your class, I would still hazard a guess that if you grouped them into good bad and medium students, the medium students would still be the vast majority, notwithstanding that 20 years ago all the mediums would have been deemed to be bad.
                                We can rail against kids and parents behaviour (that is after all where discipline and social skills are supposed to come from) but we must also accept that we are evolving continually, we as a society are changing and that kids behaviour is part of that change.

                                Just in case you think I am someone who see's no bad in kids, society is to blame etc etc, I can assure you that totally isnt the case, I have mentioned before that I was known as the Victorian Soldier and the Victorian Parent by my peers, as I was a real stickler for manners and the behaviour of my children.
                                Bob Leponge
                                Life's disappointments are so much harder to take if you don't know any swear words.

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