kids out of control

[Jeanied]

I am so proud of my fellow teachers on here - some really positive and pragmatic thoughts and they aren't about to give up trying! I quite like the saying 'it takes a village to raise a child'.

[miffy]

I agree Bobleponge we are evolving, as teachers we are preparing children for a society and jobs that do not even exist at present.
Technological change is moving so quickly it is quite breath taking, my son for example is merrily playing away on a phone with a qwerty keyboard emailing his friends!
Technology the thing of science fiction when i was little!
I love that expression Jeanied about the village raising a child.

The planet, technology, the environment and the human race is changing at an amazing rate and we will need to adapt and to change to keep up with this pace.

Folk talk about the 'good old days', often forgetting the awful things that went with it, disease, unemployment, social unrest, poverty etc.

All decades have their pluses and minuses and in each one people have been able to adapt and to learn how to cope with the challenges they face.

Children have an amazing ability to adapt and to take on board new ideas and concepts, they are amazing and i feel much misunderstood.

We tend to lump them together, 'the youth of today', 'hoodlams' ( which is a medieval expression which came from when thieves put up their hoods to cover their faces to rob travellers!)some things do not change.

I think all we can do is to live our lives to the best of our ability and to try to do what ever we can to make the world a good place to be and to give kids a break.

[petal]

Some very interesting perspectives here.

[Brengirl]

I do sincerely hope that I will not be misunderstood here. I may, in the past, have felt critical of the 'schools' interference in the values that I, as a parent. was trying to instill in my children. Up the age of 5 ish, I was in charge, they rebelled at times, but the discipline was down to me. From the time they commence school MUM/DAD start to lose their authority and are often challenged.
In the 1970's new thinking in the field of school education began to creep in 'free thought, a right to challenge authority were introduced. So now we have 'good parents' and 'good teachers' powerless to discipline and education suffers.

[SlugLobber]

Often (another person here who worked in schools till 3 years ago) parents have no idea HOW to discipline their children. I always remember the young lass who slapped her child around the head and shouted "Stop f***ing swearing!" She thought she was teaching her child manners!

If you weren't the other side of the Pennines, Flum, I'd have thought you were talking about my sister, lol. She greets her son with, 'Hello, knobcheese' and that's the politest one I can think of. Her 11 yr old daughter is currently on Bookface holding a bottle of WKD (alcopop). They all swear like troopers to each other and her idea of discipline is to shout, 'I'll kick your effin head in'. I'm adopted, I swear it...and no, my mother never spoke to us like that.

[miffy]

I have sat in parent interviews and when i have expressed my concern about little johnnies rather anglo saxon vocabulary! The mother has retorted, little bugger i don't know where he f 'n gets it from, i'll kill the little sod when i get ome!
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic, alot of folk use swear words as connectives rather than an utterance used in extreme situations. Words i didn't even know existed until i was a teenager are regularly used by five year olds in my class.
So very sad, particularly when the English language is so rich with alternative words with which to describe how you feel!!

[jackie j]

I was brought up by a sinle parent, lost my dad when I was six, we had rules, we had disipline, I cant ever remember my mum swearing at me, smacking me or anything else. I cringe when I hear parents swearing at their kids telling them they are f... in idiots or the like. Many parents think their children are angels and never do anything wrong. I know mine have done wrong and they have been made to appologise, have been grounded, have had prize possesions taken away, they have thankfully grown into caring loving adults. I still cringe when one of my son swears and I tell him off, he might be 28 but he is still my son. Parents need to work with teachers not abuse them, If as a society we worked together and not individualy things might not be so bad. I cringe at some of the things my 14yr old niece is allowed to do, sometimes things my own sons were never allowed to do. I never let my sons just go out because their friends were, if they were going somewhere I wanted to know where, when, what time they would be home. Often I would tell them what time to be home, they didnt have mobile phones and 9 pm was plenty late enough on a school night to be out. 9.30pm on a weekend. They did what I told them, I respected them and they respected me. If as parents we dont show or teach our children how to respect other people and thier property how do we expect them to know.

[RedThorn]

As a parent of young children, I'd just like to point out the strange looks you get when you insist on raising your young 'uns with manners an "old fashioned" upbringing.

The problem with kids is they never come with a handbook or instruction guide.

Fi a whack on the bottom never worked with me.... just made me dig my heels in and actually behave worse! But then I have always been a stubborn so and so

[miffy]

Fi a whack on the bottom never worked with me.... just made me dig my heels in and actually behave worse! But then I have always been a stubborn so and so.

With you there RedThorn.
I have vivid memories of my dad saying to me that unless i said sorry for back chatting my mum, which was in fact my not agreeing with her when she asked my opinion, he would smack me, he counted to ten and i just sat and refused.

I calmly explained that mum should not have asked me for my opinion if she wasn't prepared for my answer not to be the same as her opinion.

He counted up to ten and then lost his temper and didn't so much smack me as beat me.

I never forgot that and i have never raised my hand to my son and also have listened to him when he needs to tell me how he feels, opinions etc and ensured he knows he is valued but also that there are times when we do need to do as we have been asked and the reasons why.

This has enabled us over the years to have common ground and to be able to talk things through when there have been difficulties. We are now able to talk about a whole host of morale and social issues and he is very open about his views and opinons and can discuss them in a non confrontational way with me.

Being a parent is the hardest but most rewarding job in the world. It is even harder today than it was when i was little as there are so many visual images and audio images that challenge values and ideals.

Children are bombarded on a daily basis by these and this makes it very difficult to build a moral code for them to follow.
Even in the 18 years since i had my son things have changed.

I wish i had a magic wandn to wave to help parents and children, it would make my professional life a lot easier!!

But i don't so i will keep on doing what hundreds of other professionals are doing in schools across the country, guiding children and their parents and carers to enable them to be social, responsible, literate and numerate members of society.

It isn't easy for any one bringing up a child in the 21st century especially now as we move into 2010 in the full knowledge that economically things are going to continue to get a whole lot worse.

Public sector funding is the next in the governments long list of cuts and schools, teachers, resources will be 'trimmed', which means less funding for one to one support for children with behavioural issues.

Less money to spend on support staff in the classroom. Less money to employ experienced teachers so NQT's will find themselves in challenging classes with little or not extra support.

The result of this will be i am afraid more dis affected children and parents without the support they need.
It sounds bleak but it is a reality as i have seen it happen before.

What to do?
All of you that have responded to this thread have one thing in common you feel there is a need to ensure children have some grounding in social skills.

You may not all agree to what extent this is dependent on which adults but you are all in agreement that it benefits the child, society and the extended community.

I think as we move into the next decade of the 21st century this is a positive thought to hold.
If we all encourage, support and continue to believe in children then the future will be a whole lot more positive.
I am not saying it is easy, particulary when the behaviour, language etc is not within our own belief systems or falls way off our own moral scale.

However i for one am not prepared to throw in the towel just yet and i will continue to persevere and teach little johnnie some other words with which to express himself other than the anglo saxon ones he currently uses!
To all you parents, carers and those working in a professional capacity with children, young people and families i wish you all a very happy new year.

[FionaH]

Fi a whack on the bottom never worked with me.... just made me dig my heels in and actually behave worse! But then I have always been a stubborn so and so

Oh heck I have been quoted twice on that one now! Can I just say that I am not advocating battering small children Sometimes a short sharp smack can shock a child and can be a quick and effective way to stop a child doing something really dangerous. It's not ideal but then I am not an ideal parent. I think it also differs from child to child, my second son was, and still is extremely stubborn with a backside like asbestos, no point smacking him, so on the whole I didn't.

I work on the periphery of education, and I never cease to be impressed with the patience and dedication of most of the teachers I come into contact with. Sentiments that I see reflected on here.

These days however if I wanted to smack my sons I would have to ask them to stand still for a bit while I went and got a chair

[di]

Oh heck I have been quoted twice on that one now! Can I just say that I am not advocating battering small children Sometimes a short sharp smack can shock a child and can be a quick and effective way to stop a child doing something really dangerous. It's not ideal but then I am not an ideal parent. I think it also differs from child to child, my second son was, and still is extremely stubborn with a backside like asbestos, no point smacking him, so on the whole I didn't.

This is something I really struggled with for ages.
In my little dream world,where I just happened to be a perfect Mum,I was never,ever going to smack my children.The first time I did I was wracked with so much guilt.I'm still not totally sure what benefits there are with smacking nor whether I can honestly say it's done as discipline or whether it's me losing my temper?But I don't think it's something one should feel guilty about....unless of course it's regular beatings!I was smacked as a child and although I don't think it's an ideal thing,I don't think it's so bad to get yourself worked up over.
Our two seem similar to yours though Fi...on the very rare occassion that D has had a smack,it's worked as a short sharp shock into behaving.A on the other hand....doesn't seem to feel a thing(and I'm not about to start doing it harder just so he feels it!),but worse,on the whole it just makes his behaviour worse.
My first response to this thread was a little curt,for which I've apologised.(I'd that day been with my sis & she wasn't having a good time)
There are a lot of parents out there that do have strange ideas on how to bring their kiddies up...laughing when a toddler swears,telling them that if they get any s**t from the teachers Mummy will go sort them out etc etc.
I found it really sad one day when a mum moaned to me about being expected to read with her daughter at home..."that's what the ****'n teachers get paid to do".
I don't know how much times have changed,I was brought up in a tiny little village and went to a school with just 17 other pupils,so for me I don't know if it's a case of things being worse now or if it's more a town/country thing?

[Brengirl]

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear. I suppose I must count myself among the lucky ones. None of my four aspired to heights academically but since leaving school have always been in full time employment. Our soon took himself off to the US for a year but returned to knuckle under in our taxi business. We retired 5 years ago and he is making a better success than we ever did. Our three daughters have in their turn been stay-at-home mums but all three are now teaching assistants at local schools. The youngest (mother to 6) is a one to one of a most difficult and disturbed young person. All their children (13 altogether) have found and maintained local full time work. They are all bright intelligent young people. All their friends are welcome at our house and are frequent visitors.
I know we can only speak from experience but as far as I am concerned, in general, today's young people are no better, no worse than I ever was.

If there is any retrograde step I would once again put responsibility on the Education Authority. It used to be that the brightest went on to teach. Today, maybe it is the bravest with all the bylaws and pc involved.

[miffy]

'If there is any retrograde step I would once again put responsibility on the Education Authority. It used to be that the brightest went on to teach. Today, maybe it is the bravest with all the bylaws and pc involved.'

Teaching today in Primary schools is about the whole child not just 'chalk and talk', we are far more involved in enabling children and their families to get the best possible start in life.
A child who lives in poverty, with no regular meals, no money for heating or uniform is not going to perform as well at school as a child with these basic human rights.

I do spend alot of time working with families to sort out issues such as these and working with other agencies to help families get help when they need it.

We do need to be multi skilled as professionals, teaching is the major part of course but education cannot be seen in isolation from all the other things which impact on a child's life.

Ignoring the social needs of a child would mean that they were unable to take the best advantage of the education on offer too. If a child feels safe, s fed, warm and well cared for they will thrive so sorting this out too is so important.

Brengirl you have done a wonderful job with your children and they are very lucky to have a mum like you as are your children's children too.

[mrdinkle]

I am of the opinion that diet plays a significant role.

Just been reading 'Not on the Label: What Really Goes into the Food on Your Plate' which kind of reinforced what I thought, though I could be wrong.....

[RedThorn]

Oh heck I have been quoted twice on that one now! Can I just say that I am not advocating battering small children Sometimes a short sharp smack can shock a child and can be a quick and effective way to stop a child doing something really dangerous. It's not ideal but then I am not an ideal parent.

Sorry Fi... did not mean to make you feel bad My Dad's dad used to hang them in Hessian sacks from the wash line and beat them with a hose. My dad smacked me but not quite as bad as that. I just feel very strongly about it. I used to wear corporal punishment on my blazer like a badge of pride. a little pen stripe per cane stroke on the thin white lines. (54 caning's in 3 days was my personal record) which in my opinion proves that smacking did not work on me

I also agree with you that if I did smack DD on the bottom now (not hard mind) she would be so shocked it would stop her short. For me though this is one line I personally am not prepared to cross.

To each parent, their method. Good luck to all. But just one plea - "NEVER give up on your kids!"