Horse/person trouble- I need calming down.

[petal]

I need to work things through rationally in my head, not my strong point.
I got a call from the livery yard owner to tell me my pony had been found in the road(alive thank goodness) apparently this is my fault as whereas they normally live out all winter being native breeds(sheltered 10 acre field, thick rugs on) I brought them in during snowstorm and ice to shelter for a couple of days last week, so the reason my pony escaped, according to yard owner, is because he was obviously looking for a warmer place to go and it was my fault.
Forgive me for thinking this but if one rents land out and runs an establishment, taking £200 per person per month into the bargain -is it not ones responsibility to ensure that fencing is intact? So that livestock cannot escape? He is only 11hh for goodness sake!(the pony) What if one of the other owners had arrived say 30 minutes late as people do from time to time, to bring in their horse and it had got through the fence in the meantime- would that be their fault too?
Who would be liable in this situation? I am seriously annoyed!My little girl has been in tears worrying about her pony.

[RedThorn]

??? the mind boggles Petal. As to the legal standing, I'm not sure but I do believe it a reasonable expectation for him to keep the Fences in a state of repair as this maintenance cost should be part of the funds you pay each month!

[petal]

I think it was the way she instantly blamed me that has upset me most. I am trying to give the ponies as natural a life as possible and dissaprove of stabling unneccessarily(dust spores and coughs)she agreed that it was ok for them to stay out the winter- she ought to work for her money, its not a free lunch!

[SueA]

I need to work things through rationally in my head, not my strong point.
I got a call from the livery yard owner to tell me my pony had been found in the road(alive thank goodness) apparently this is my fault as whereas they normally live out all winter being native breeds(sheltered 10 acre field, thick rugs on) I brought them in during snowstorm and ice to shelter for a couple of days last week, so the reason my pony escaped, according to yard owner, is because he was obviously looking for a warmer place to go and it was my fault.
Forgive me for thinking this but if one rents land out and runs an establishment, taking £200 per person per month into the bargain -is it not ones responsibility to ensure that fencing is intact? So that livestock cannot escape? He is only 11hh for goodness sake!(the pony) What if one of the other owners had arrived say 30 minutes late as people do from time to time, to bring in their horse and it had got through the fence in the meantime- would that be their fault too?
Who would be liable in this situation? I am seriously annoyed!My little girl has been in tears worrying about her pony.

Sounds like they're trying to pass the buck Petal. How do they know what happened? It could have been anything, something/someone could have frightened the pony or damaged the fence or whatever. Glad the pony is O.K. though & hope your little girl gets over it, take the pony some extra carrots & maybe look for somewhere else to keep him if possible?

[poly]

Think I'd be looking for a new livery yard. Although they phoned to let you know your pony had got out, trying to blame you is ridiculous. My understanding is the owner of the livery is responsible for maintaining fences. They should have adequate insurance to cover accidents etc, so might be worth checking they have.

I guess the positive is your daughters pony is ok

[FionaH]

Normally it is the livery yards responsibility to ensure fencing and security is up to the job. The only way the onus is on you is if you rent the field for your own personal use and you have a contract that states you are responsible for upkeep.

It really depends on the contract you signed when you started keeping your pony there, tell me you had a contract?

A native pony with rugs should be perfectly capable of living out in all weathers so is unlikely to escape because it is freezing. However they are likely to escape after food or just 'cos they fancy it! As for the pony only being 11hh in my experience the smaller they are the better they are at Houdini acts.

[petal]

I think I need to look for somewhere else if this is her attitude - had she been repentant and apologised profusely, promised to look at fencing as a matter of urgency, I would feel okish about it.
Also, it is a livery yard and upkeep of fencing is their responsibility, 5 other 11hh and smaller live in there, lets hope they are not all houdinis!

[RedThorn]

Was think of saying to perhaps take your custom elsewhere but others have already mentioned it. You pay for a service and it is not unreasonable to receive what you pay for. Trouble is less and less people want to work for their money

[its hilly]

Petal, take deep breaths..at least your pony is safe.
Right..now calmly.
My understanding is that it is the YARD owners responsibility to maintain fences in good ie horseproof condition. If you rent a FIELD rather than paying livery then it may be that it is your responsibility to maintin the boundries, it wuld depend on your rent agreement. If your pony was an escapologist who was out every time someone looked then that could be argued as different. But if they are saying it is your fault then RUBBISH. When people rug their horses and turn them out during the day they dont all escape to come back in! And your pony has been happy turned out in that field previously without trying to escape. Even if he would now rather be in it is irrelevent..he would not have escaped if the fence had been repaired as it should!!
There is no legal requirement for livery yards to be registered with the local council, but some may be. See if you can find out, then phone the good old British Horse Society and see if they have any guidence for you. They have legal helplines for members, BUT IN A CASE OF HORSE WELFARE, which a livery yard not keeping up standards and allowing the clients horses to be put at risk IS then they may well help anyway. And will certanly tell you who would be liable if (god forbid) anything should ever happen.

[Rhona]

I represented someone years ago in a case where a horse 'escaped' and ran into the road, through a dodgy fence. Without going into detail, which you don't need, the fault lay with the person or entity responsible for maintaining the fences, and who had assumed the duty of care for the horse (implied by your renting arrangement, but you need to check the agreement). The owner of the horse didn't feature on liability, just to give a 'character reference' for the horse.

Each case turns on it's facts but I do think the livery yard owner is liable in your case, and I agree, perhaps start looking elsewhere for an alternative. I also found through a variety of equine cases that there's a lot of self-regulation and lack of compulsary regulation out there (then, anyway).

[petal]

Good advice, thanks. We rent stables too, as do other people from the livery owner and there are other horses besides ours in the field and I know they are very concerned too.

[Nicos]

It's too easy to say move , unless you can't get them to accept responsibility. I presume you and your daughter are part of a well established group and routine , who help each other out?
Maybe you could all get together and explain your concerns, and if not rectified, perhaps move en mass.
..having said that though....We moved from a previous yard very reluctantly away from a group of 'friends', but found an utterly superb alternative- and cheaper too.
I'd start looking around for an alternative place so you don't feel so vulnerable - just as a back up..you never know, it might work out fine where you are if everyone bands together to discuss concerns, or you/they move elsewhere.
Your ponies welfare is the utmost importance..followed by convenience.
(I'd still make sure your insurance cover is OK though)
..contract???...I bet 95% of peeps with horses/ponies don't have one!

[Polly Fouracre]

Goodness! We let the stables next to our fields put their sweet and huggable shetlands and min. shetlands in our fields during the winter. We don't charge them as the ponies eat off the long grass etc. But even so, I am scrupulous in checking fences and hedges and would feel responsible if they got out. (before we had good fencing put up they used to break in!!) so I think that if you are paying all that money for livery then the onus must be on the owners of the fields to maintain the fencing. Glad all was well in the end, it could have been a very different and tragic story.

[petal]

fencing was 'patched up' today but we have decided its time to look for our own field and have our own space and regime. I want the ponies to live out, with field shelter of course. I have always disapproved of making them stand in stables unneccesarily overnight, which is what we have now got to do do until we find an alternative. One of the ponies gets stable cough, which is not ideal.

[miffy]

I think you have made the right decision. Move your ponies before something else happens then you will all feel so much better.