MP's expenses... is this the beginning of the end?

[bobleponge]

Just seen that 3MP's and a Peer are to have criminal charges brought against them for their expense claims.
Should make for some interesting press headlines...

[Capsid]

Just remember this when it's time to vote. Unfortunately, many MPs are taking the coward's way out and not standing at the next election which is a shame because then we could have shown them how upset we are about this.

[OllieMartin]

Just remember this when it's time to vote. Unfortunately, many MPs are taking the coward's way out and not standing at the next election which is a shame because then we could have shown them how upset we are about this.

The only way we'd show MPs how upset we were is if everyone spoiled their ballots, but very few people in this country bother doing that.
It seems we would rather vote for someone we don't like than not vote at all. Personally I think people have failed to see the point in democracy. You could have Pol Pot standing against Hitler and the British would vote for one of them to exercise their 'democratic rights'!

[bobleponge]

Thing is Ollie, if all right minded people spoiled their ballot papers in protest, or didnt vote at all, then there would be a real risk of a far right/left party coming to power.
You only have to look at the election in France 8 years ago (roughly) when due to voter intransigence, JM LePen got through to the second round, causing huge national shame.

I just wonder how far these cases will go. Generally these days, the CPP have to be fairly confident of a result for them to even sanction it.

[Dane End Dolly]

The only way to truly make a difference is for everyone to vote for the alternative to whom is currently standing, that is the only way to get a completely new parliament and would def let people know how we the british feel.

The problem is, if we cannot even complain about the cost of petrol and do not winge when all our electric & gas companies get sold to the french and we pay inflated prices, do not put our foot down when we are dragged into the eurozone without a wimper. how is anyone going to take us seriously they know that we will winge and moan but still let it go on, quite frustrating really.



sorry to be so political and, well, quite radical for me, i shall slink away quietly now that i have got that off my chest.

[OllieMartin]

As I'm not the most knowledgeable on these things (despite throwing opinions around like road grit!) What do we have to do to re-instate the queen until such time as there's someone suitable to run the government?

[zazen999]

The only way to truly make a difference is for everyone to vote for the alternative to whom is currently standing, that is the only way to get a completely new parliament and would def let people know how we the british feel.

The problem is; the alternative is

[bobleponge]

Ollie, I am no expert on the constitution, but I think that the only way that the reigning monarch can retake control of the machinations of the country is if either:
1 The monarch dissolves parliament for whatever reason, with no new government in the process of being formed, or
2 The entire reigning political party resigns, thus leaving an unworkable government.

Given that the majority of our politicians actually do feel they work for us, and are dedicated public servants, 2 is highly unlikely, and as Big Lizzie currently has no real reason to dissolve power (no matter what we think) 1 is also unlikely.

The entire nation is becoming politically disenfranchised, has been doing for the last 40+ years as the continual falling percentages of voters at elections will show, but this is a dangerous trend, LePen profitting from this in France is a clear example.

I agree with Zazen, the alternative is ????

However, having worked in many countries where democracy wasnt an option, I would much rather have the bad choices I have now, than no choice at all.


Personally I am hoping for the Belgian option, seemed to work for them well enough. Brilliant.

[OllieMartin]

But before the General Election, doesn't the current PM go to the Queen and ask her to disolve parliament until a new PM is elected? So it stands to reason that if enough people spoiled their ballots (taking into account the risks that that poses) then no government could be instated and the Queen would remain in control until a general election was called where there was a candidate people could believe in.

I agree, I'd rather have poor choices than no choice, but choice is a paradox in itself. How often do you make a choice and then spend ages afterwards thinking "I wish I'd made a different choice". Sometimes it's better to make no choice at all until you're sure of the decision you want to make.

[Dane End Dolly]

Sorry, but i am going to have to stamp my foot again.

It makes me so angry when they cannot see that they have done wrong and are bleeting about hard done by they are, if we in the "normal workplace" pulled those kinds of shenanigans, we would not only be sacked but could be prosecuted (I know 5 are but that is only a small %).

i am sorry but THEY JUST DONT GET IT AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH

And how much holiday do they have for gods sake, what do they do there now most of our laws are controlled by the EU, is that why they have so much more holiday so we do not notice that they do not have as much to do.

oh god my blood pressure!!!!!!!!

sorry guys

[bobleponge]

But before the General Election, doesn't the current PM go to the Queen and ask her to disolve parliament until a new PM is elected?

The PM does do that, but that is pertinant to point 1.
The monarch dissolves parliament, for whatever reason, with no new government in the process of being formed.


Equally, should the queen actually dissolve parliament, (which I do believe she has the right to do at any time) the entire constitution would have to be rewritten, as currently we are ruled by government, not by a monarchy.

[OllieMartin]

The PM does do that, but that is pertinant to point 1.
The monarch dissolves parliament, for whatever reason, with no new government in the process of being formed.


Equally, should the queen actually dissolve parliament, (which I do believe she has the right to do at any time) the entire constitution would have to be rewritten, as currently we are ruled by government, not by a monarchy.

Think I've hijacked this thread a tad, but surely the constitution allows for the monarch to reign during the short time between the disolution of parliamant and the appointing of a new government. I'd imagine there's no specific length of time that that could be. Otherwise we'd be a lawless nation for that short space in time.

[bobleponge]

We are a country ruled by a monarch but led by government.
Thus, whether we have a government or not, we are at all times ruled by our monarch.

Clearly she is just a figurehead, our seat of power is Downing street and Westminster.

Once the current PM asks the monarch to dissolve parliament, this is done, it has never been refused. The period of time is generally a small one, no more than a month in general. In a case of a sudden crisis in that time, the government that had been dissolved would be recalled to deal with it. If not, then we would remain under the guidance of the monarch until the new government was formed.
Due to the FPTP system of elections we have in the UK, unless absolutely everyone in the UK spoilt their ballot papers, someone will win, or there would be at least a coalition government, thus we wouldnt be without a political leader for more than a period of a month.

Sadly.

[OllieMartin]

I'm learning so much, thanks Bob.

Once the current PM asks the monarch to dissolve parliament, this is done, it has never been refused.

From what I've read on Wikipedia, King George V refused to dissolve parliament in 1923 when requested by Stanley Baldwin, but instead invited Ramsay MacDonald to become PM.

Due to the FPTP system of elections we have in the UK, unless absolutely everyone in the UK spoilt their ballot papers, someone will win, or there would be at least a coalition government, thus we wouldnt be without a political leader for more than a period of a month.

Sadly.

I understood that if there were more spoiled ballots than all the parties got collectively, they couldn't create a coalition government because they wouldn't be able to collate enough votes.
Perhaps we need a Guy Fawkes figure to 'dissolve' parliament for us, V for Vendetta style!

[Glutton4...]

The problem is; the alternative is

Emigration?