Question for French grapes

[Jeanied]

You could reverse the whole discussion about language and say that the Brits are just the same with the English language - and nobody would take kindly to someone trying to speak their own language in a shop or bar! It is really hard for newbies to pick up the intonation of our speech and the slang words / colloquial expressions are pretty unfathomable - a good example is rhyming slang!

[organic]

I've actually said the same to some of the "can't speak it, won't speak it" English. It's amazing how many people can't see the contradiction between expecting everyone to speak English when you're on holiday and expecting foreigners to speak English over here.

The fact is though, even when compared to French littered with slang terms, learning English as a second language is a nightmare. It's a seriously irregular language.

Singular of Teeth is Tooth.
Singular of Geese is Goose.
Singular of Sheep is... Shoop? Nope... Sheep. Just to keep you on your toes!

They're on their boat over there.

I've even had to help some French out with "drunk". It's a state, a kind of person, a past tense of drink, past tense of itself - and then you've got drunkard, drunken and the likes too.

I'm glad I don't have to learn it as a second language, that's for sure!

[Patchninja]

What it all boils down to is that it can be VERY lonely to live in a country where you :
1. can't join in with the conversations
2.don't see what everyone else is laughing about and can't crack a joke of your own
3.will you miss all the friends/neighbours/family you have at home? The French don't POP into each others houses and think it very rude if you do.
4.really can't sort out all the administrative things easily - not easy when you CAN speak!
.............does anyone really want to live among Brits abroad? What's the point of moving away? Life's pretty cool in many parts of the UK too. My daughter lives in Cornwall and it's wonderful there. - here is no eldorado either - we pay bills and taxes like people in Britain.
The real point I wanted to make is come but come prepared.

[pigletwillie]

We go to France several times a year to holiday and are looking in the medium term to move out. We spend a lump of June in St Briac near St Malo and a lump of August in the South near to Perpignan.

I have always tried to use French, even if half of a sentence is poorly structured the locals pick out what you mean and will really have a change of attitiude almost in the fact that you bother. The pronunciation is the hardest bit, getting the femenine and masculine aspects wrong can cause confusion but if you pronunciation is bad it can be a struggle. Its really suprising how quickly you pick up the main thrust too, Last year we had a puncture and hobbled to a tyre shop. I asked the man in my best french for a new one, understood the options given to me and chose accordingly. It just sort of came out and I was quite proud of myself for not using a word of English and actually being fully understood and not queried about what I said.

Personally I find the little joiny up words the worst to remember. And yes they dpo speak differently in the south to the north, quite noticeably so.

[bobleponge]

And yes they dpo speak differently in the south to the north, quite noticeably so.

Quite so. Up here in the cultured north on bois du vin, on mange du pain et on dis putain, down there ils boirent du vaing, ils mangent du paing et ils disent putaing. Very strange lot indeed.


This thread has basically come down to the language issue. There are many more things to France, both good and bad, but I think the fact that the language issue is dominating shows the importance.
I would always say its not the end of the world to come here with no French, providing you have the right attitude. Organic put it all in his quick point far more eloquently than I ever could.

Just remember that Costieres de Nimes cost less than 2 Euro a bottle here, and much more than a fiver in UK, was reason enough for me.

[smallblueplanet]

Perhaps I could ask for a positive slant on the seemingly perennial question - why do you live where you do?

Could you tell me the positive aspects of living in France?

[bobleponge]

Fantastic quality of life, easier pace of life, much more appreciative of family values and respect of older people, wonderful countryside that I can afford to live in, cheap GOOD wine, space (not the final frontier), no road tax, MOT every 2 years, wild boar and deer regularly in and around the garden, great roads, punctual and state aided (thus reasonably priced) train system....
There are probably more but I've got to make my tea.

[Jardiniere]

i know this is of no real relevance but i thought i'd throw it in anyway
on the 14th March we are going to Malta for a week with 6 french people. They are people(and their spouses) who we meet with every other tuesday to talk in english/french (on the other tuesdays we go for long walks) The french people in the group wanted to go away somewhere to improve their english - they couldnt afford Scotland - all had been to england so chose Malta (cheap this time of year, yet warm and they speak english).No other english people are going.....
See no relevance at all ...............

[organic]

I agree with patchninja that it can be lonely. While I was learning French out and about with the locals it was exactly as described. Didn't get the jokes, couldn't make them.
The main things keeping me in the UK are family and the general British traditions and neighbourly ways. Truth be told, I'm suspicious of any country with steep hills that doesn't end up chasing cheese down them.

Great Britain is one of the two most beautiful islands on the planet... the other is our near neighbour... Ireland.

One of the main things I missed about the UK when I was in France was decent beer.
Good beer is almost impossible to come by. There's now a microbrewery in Chamonix, but when I first moved out the choice was Amstel, Stella, Kronenbourg, and so on. If you wanted something heavier you might find a place selling Brown Ale or Guinness. Real ale is pretty much unheard of - which breaks my heart. The wine's good though.

Missing family, friends and the likes is a big issue for me too, and the main reason I moved back to Manchester... twice. It's also the reason Ireland is very much on the cards as a place to live. I've got more family there than here! Not forgetting it's a wonderful country... even if the beer isn't anything like as good as in the UK.


Actually, on the wine front...
While it's true that there's some really very good wine for pittance in France, there's also some utterly appalling stuff on sale too. Some of the "really good cheap wine in the supermarkets" is so bad I wouldn't use it as an experimental slug bait for fear of offending them into eating my crops!

[bobleponge]

Cheap beer (I am a soft southern lager drinker, so I'm easily pleased), was in a pub in London with a mate last weekend, and for 2 pints I could have bought a crate at home.
Traditional values, out in the sticks in France, pretty much EVERYBODY does what us GYO'ers do in the UK. Even in the new modern housing estates that are springing up, probably 90% of the houses have a potager in the garden. Its not out of necessity in most cases, its because its what their families have always done.
2 hours for lunch, frustrating when you first move here and everything is always shut, but once you get used to it, its very enjoyable.
Free public sports facilities in most communes.
I have no doubt its different in the cities, but:
I hadnt been here long, probably no more than a couple of months. We had bought some chooks that had settled in nicely, when along comes the German Shepherd puppy.
Hungry fella he was, ate 2 chickens within a day of being in the house.
No matter what I did he was determined to get in the coop, so I went to buy an electric fence. Not cheap over here, but had to do something.
Neighbour recommended a shop, in I went. Guy was brilliant, asked me what I wanted it for, explained it was for the pesky hound. He told me that it would only take 1 or at most 2 shocks to stop hound entering coop. He went into the backroom and came out with a dusty old box. "Rather than buying one, take this, use it till the dog is no longer going in, then bring it back." He took no details from me, didnt ask for any ID, he just took it on trust that I would bring it back, which I duly did. I have used that shop ever since too.
Education is standards based not age based, which just makes perfect sense to me.
There will be more but I'm watching French rugby on tv.

[organic]

(I am a soft southern lager drinker, so I'm easily pleased)

Don't worry - nobody's perfect.

Clipped from your post are the ones I completely agree with.
"for 2 pints I could have bought a crate at home." - Absolutely! First time I was there, every week I got a crate of 26 (not a typo) little Kronenbourg for £5. Shockingly cheap there, shockingly expensive here.

"2 hours for lunch, frustrating when you first move here and everything is always shut, but once you get used to it, its very enjoyable." Dead right - and equally, when you go back to England and "lunch" is half an hour to an hour you wonder how on earth people survive!

"He took no details from me, didnt ask for any ID, he just took it on trust that I would bring it back, which I duly did." I had the same thing when I was trying out snowboards to replace the one I broke. No ID, nothing. Just "here, try this one tomorrow and come back in the evening and tell me how it was"... then another.

"Education is standards based not age based, which just makes perfect sense to me." What? Not putting thick kids in with the brainiacs or needlessly mainstreaming those with special needs? You dirty no good Daily Mail reading TORY! (sorry - it's the best faux-insult I could come up with). You're right though, it does make perfect sense... which is why we don't do it here!

"rugby on tv." I've not watched a good game in too long. I must make a point of that soon.

[its hilly]

Just remember that Costieres de Nimes cost less than 2 Euro a bottle here, and much more than a fiver in UK, was reason enough for me

.
LOL Boble..yeah as an ardent red wine lover..thats a good reason
Actually the thought of being isolated doesnt bother me, Im sociable, but never happier than in my own company. OH is the one who likes to socialise and he speaks some French already. And I wouldnt dream of expecting anyone in another country to speak English to me if I was living there. It really annoys me when people move to Britain and make no effort to learn the language, you want to live here, our laws our language, and it applies in reverse, move to another country..their laws their language. Over than that Im laid back, so no doubt would survive.
Thanks to those who have offered help..I WILL get back to you, I'm just having to fit 36hrs in to 24 at the moment, I need to clear my desk Shovel? no, bulldozer!

[Nicos]

I love how when you enter a small shop that all the staff and customers stop talking, turn to you and smile and say hello.

I love how when I walk into my garage the mechanics come over and offer their elbow to shake in a greeting.

I love how in the local bar they don't want you to pay until the end, and if busy say-just pay next time you're in

I love how the Brits offer to bring back 'supplies' from their trips back to the UK

I love how you have to wait 10 mins to be served because the person in front of you is just nattering ( takes some getting used to!)

I love all the church bells ringing in the surrounding communes on the hour- all sounding slightly different.

I love how on the stroke of 12 everyone heads home for a family lunch

I love how if you ask for help with something everyone gets involved- including their family and friends- until it's sorted.

I love how produce is shared amongst friends and neighbours

I love how peeps faces light up when they say their only English word and I understand.

I love how you are invited to lunch at weekend and finally arrive home after midnight

I love how well everyone else is able to prepare tasty, beautiful food!

I love how loads of farmers wives attend the local yoga class wearing old clothes and socks with holes in them- and a beautiful scarf draped across their shoulders

And I love how GYO is normal here and you can talk to an electrician about which is the best method of preserving hazelnuts- or the septic tank inspector about which flour or sugar he'd recommend for certain recipes.

I love to see the battered old cars trundling along the country lanes with their headlights pointing in everywhich direction but the road ahead!

And most of all- I love how I've been able to step down from the competitive treadmill , look around me and and interact with Nature.

You know there are so many wonderful everyday things to enjoy- just as in the UK..but very different.
I'm lucky to have had the opportunity of experiencing- and enjoying both

[Patchninja]

You're really lucky, Bob getting 2 hours for lunch. Not round here! And the shops aren't all shut either. They want people to shop during their lunch break
Seriously, I've never wanted to go back to England. Couldn't now, anyway. What I paid for my house, (stone built, rather large, walled garden, sea views) 20 years ago was peanuts. It's not the case now, but I would never be able to afford an equivalent in Blighty!
France has changed a LOT in the last 20 years. SO much building has gone on. I thought it was bad in the Côtes d'Armor but according to the newspapers it's even worse in Finistère.
That said, we have a quality of life that my sister in England doesn't have and the others are right - there's a gentleness to life here that I wouldn't want to lose. Yes, we work very hard. Yes, life can be very stressful but there are compensations.
I'm sure the others will agree - I go 15 minutes down the road and I feel like I'm on holiday. I can afford to go to a restaurant from time to time. I can afford to buy steak! (the prices in Waitrose make me want to cry LOL). The wine is great. I love seafood and here it's to die for. The sea is never the same 2 days running. And my Cornish grandson, aged 2 now says OOOO la la!

[bobleponge]

Patchninja, its 2 hours here, no question. There is a large town about 25 mins away and the large out of town superstores, Leclerc, Intermarché etc all stay open, but otherwise everything shuts, which I like.
Although nothing like your longevity here, I bought my first house 15 years ago, and would agree France has changed, a lot. Even with the changes, even with the ridiculous 35hrs a week, even with the incompetence of Pole Emploi, even with the rise in prices, whilst never is a long time, I just dont see me going back to the UK to live.

I think its great that banks shut on a Monday, but are open all day on Saturday, so you can have your meetings on your day off. I think its rubbish that with my bank, I cant pay cheques or cash into my account if I'm outside of my department, but its something I have got used to.

I love taking Brit guests into my local for a plat du jour for 10 euro, seeing my guests faces when everyone who comes in says "bonne appetite" and then leaving absolutely stuffed.

There are real issues with trying to cancel contracts on things such as mobile phones, internet service providers, gymnasium memberships etc. So bad in fact that things were debated in the house just recently.

Probably my biggest gripe about living in France is that, although when I work in France I pay my taxes to the state, quite rightly, I am not allowed to vote in the national elections to decide how my money is spent.