Main Stream option?

[Brengirl]

My 3 daughters are involved in primary education. They are not teacher trained and are offered the title of TA. 2 of them have been offering their skills for 20 years or more and are highly regarded. My younger of the 3 having brought up 6 children applied for a post of 1 to 1. This is only ever a temporary post and there is never ever continuity.
She loves the challenge she has accepted and sometimes recounts the problems she and the class have to accept. She has been physically attacked, bitten, kicked and stamped on by her recent charge but he has grown so attached to her that the thought of moving on the secondary school is proving just too much for him. Because of the 'success' she had made with the boy she has been asked to progress with him to higher school. I do not think she will be taking up this offer.
This is just briefly the situation but this is where I stick my neck out and ask "why oh why, whilst there are educational facilities available for those poor souls with mental and physical problems are parents given the option to send them to main stream schools.
All 3 of my girls have witnessed the disruption to school life by the added stress of the 'one to ones' and even more distressing the anger and sometimes bullying tactics of the other classmates.
Is it possible to retract this choice by parents and make the classroom a fun and safe place for our children to be educated once more.

[Two_Sheds]

It's government policy to provide a mainstream education

here's an article supporting your view, from 4 years ago: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle719849.ece

Mainstreaming works IF adequate funding & provision is given to the school. It benefits the child, the other children and society as a whole (back in my day, special needs children were "out of sight out of mind" and we never got to meet anyone who was deaf etc. Dyslexia wasn't invented then, so those children with it were just called thick)

I work in a special needs class, and the needs are many and varied (and great kids). They come together for one-to-one literacy & numeracy, but integrate with their unspecial classmates for other subjects.

[Brengirl]

Yep I have to agree the broader picture is Utopia. But, how about very small schools with limited budget. A very disruptive underachieving child throwing chairs and debris at the staff and other students. To the extent that his parents have to be alerted to restrain the boy.
My daughter has had to conceal the personal injury done to her in order to keep calm and order in the classroom.

[northepaul]

I think you raise a valid point Brengirl.
However I work in a school with children with dyslexia and other learning difficulties of this nature and welcome the fact that children with special needs are now more accepted into mainstream education. If children are taught from a young age together then prejudices and bullying are less likely to happen.
Infact I would go as far as to say that (in the school I work in as example) most of the disruption is caused by troublemakers and so called 'normal' children.

[Brengirl]

I know I have to look at the bigger picture but I am only familiar with the discontent of main stream children against the 'special people'.
" How come they are allowed to curse and throw things at our teacher. We have to obey rules and accept dicipline why can't he?" In my thinking the tables are being turned. We are focusing our efforts to educate the weak to the detriment of the strong.

[Two_Sheds]

We are focusing our efforts to educate the weak to the detriment of the strong.

Isn't that a sign of a civilised society?

I also have had to deal with chair-throwing, tantrums, swearing etc. The "normal" children know how to make exceptions and that copying the behaviour is unacceptable.

I empathise with your daughter, because at my last school: I was one-to-one with an autistic boy, it was very difficult & demanding, and pretty much thankless. I never felt I made progress with him, and I was isolated from other children/adults.

I much prefer my new school. We are zero tolerance for bad behaviour: that means everyone.
We don't have so many children with behavioural problems, but plenty with attitude problems. We have a group of about 12, with 3 adults. It works much better than having one-to-one, tbh.

[di]

" How come they are allowed to curse and throw things at our teacher. We have to obey rules and accept dicipline why can't he?" In my thinking the tables are being turned. We are focusing our efforts to educate the weak to the detriment of the strong.

It is such a tough one but with sensitive,well trained teachers....and more importantly,as TS pointed out the right funding...I think it's important for all children to grow up around children of all needs.
Daisy and Ash have asked before why 'x' gets away with more than they would,my explanation is that we all have things we struggle with and need help to achieve,for some it's numeracy,others it's behaviour and that although it may seem they're getting away with stuff,actually the teachers are working hard at making them understand what's right and wrong.
I think it's something that needs to be looked at on a personal level.You can't say deny all children with Aspergers just because there's a few for whom Mainstream might not be the answer.
I used Aspergers as an example as it applies to two of my nephews.They've both needed 1:1 support through school.I wonder if it was the right thing for the eldest one(but then what are the other options...pop him in a school geared towards more challenged kiddies and never really give him the opportunity to 'fit in'???),the other one has done absolutely brilliantly.He's really popular,doing OK with his work and was even voted Class Rep by his fellow classmates last year

I do also feel though that all children have the right to feel safe in school and would wonder if having a fellow pupil out of control and throwing chairs is going to allow for the others to feel as safe as they should.....and indeed if they actually are safe?I guess if a pupil is consistently showing this behaviour then the school would need to assess whether they can carry on offering him/her schooling...both for the other pupils but also the child in question.

Really tough one Bren......one thing that would sure as Heck help would be for the Government to provide a little more funding.

[Seahorse]

I shall declare an interest here as a parent of one of those poor, weak souls who requires 1:1 support. I also have another three very capable and intelligent children. All have been taught in mixed groups in a mainstream school. Stunningly, they all actually seem to be ok.

I'm sure I've heard the general points you're making before Brengirl... Hitler, was it

[Brengirl]

Isn't that a sign of a civilised society?

I also have had to deal with chair-throwing, tantrums, swearing etc. The "normal" children know how to make exceptions and that copying the behaviour is unacceptable.

I empathise with your daughter, because at my last school: I was one-to-one with an autistic boy, it was very difficult & demanding, and pretty much thankless. I never felt I made progress with him, and I was isolated from other children/adults.

I much prefer my new school. We are zero tolerance for bad behaviour: that means everyone.
We don't have so many children with behavioural problems, but plenty with attitude problems. We have a group of about 12, with 3 adults. It works much better than having one-to-one, tbh.

For an equal society maybe this is the way to go. But, there will always be winners and losers in every scenario.
My daughter, in addition to her daily duties of being 1 to 1 to the autistic child also has her own son in the same mainstream class. He finds it almost impossible to contain his anger at the abuse his own mum has to endure. He is so protective of her it makes we want to weep.

[Two_Sheds]

the abuse his own mum has to endure.

She shouldn't have to put up with that. She really ought to approach the Head. When we had chair-throwing etc, the more senior teachers waded in to deal with the situation

[weekendwellies]

Secondary school is a difficult time for all in my opinion,.
It is during these years that the children are finding out who they are, discovering boundaries, pushing said boundaries, learning how to handle more complicated relationships with others, learning how to interact with adults and taking on responsibilities themselves. Not to mention the pressure of exams.
Whether 'normal' or 'special' it is a very difficult and complicated time of life, but it is essential phase to go through in order to become an adult and a valued member of society.

By the way, I happen to think all children are special, and no one is normal.

[Jeanied]

My daughter, in addition to her daily duties of being 1 to 1 to the autistic child also has her own son in the same mainstream class. He finds it almost impossible to contain his anger at the abuse his own mum has to endure. He is so protective of her it makes we want to weep.

I think she should not be put in this position - neither should your grandson. The more you write about this situation, Brengirl, the more it reeks of poor practice going on in the school. It sounds like behaviour and professional practice are not high on the agenda - and our 'special' children need this most of all.

[di]

For an equal society maybe this is the way to go. But, there will always be winners and losers in every scenario.
My daughter, in addition to her daily duties of being 1 to 1 to the autistic child also has her own son in the same mainstream class. He finds it almost impossible to contain his anger at the abuse his own mum has to endure. He is so protective of her it makes we want to weep.

Maybe it wasn't so wise to put herself in the position that she's supporting someone in the same class as her son???

It would be a sad day if we go back to shutting away all the kiddies that don't fit your norm into their own little environment,denying them the chances to fulfil whatever their potential may be.

[FionaH]

Obviously TA staff should have adequate resources, and back up if ANY child gets out of hand. Lets not forget that "normal" kids can be hell on wheels too. Inclusion in schools work only when the resources are available to make it work, as has already been pointed out.

However if we were to take Brens position to its logical conclusion all people with special needs/learning difficulties would be locked away, institutionalised and in many cases abused. It was not until the mid 80s that it was recognised that these people should even live in our communities let alone be educated! I saw first hand the prejudice borne out of fear and ignorance engendered when it was suggested that people with learning difficulties might live in a well staffed ordinary house in a "nice" area.
I for one would hate to see a return to out of sight out of mind.

[Brengirl]

After having read one interpretation of my sincere question. I decline to make any further comment.