Really fed up

[pigletwillie]

apologies for being nosey, are you have an en-suite I'm not sure if to have one or not. We have already planned for a downstairs loo and had a shower put in one corner of the family bathroom.

Yes, our finished room will be some 22 x 24 feet and a wet room is part of the scheme. As its going to be the master bedroom an ensuite is a must.

[Brengirl]

When my Mum was no longer able to look after herself and we wished her to live with us. Accommodation was a problem. Fortunately our house was built in front of neighbouring premises and we could extend to the back without contravening light issues. The extension is single storey but the footings are double so in actual fact we could extend to second storey if we so wanted.
Is it possible for you to extend your property in this way?

[zazen999]

We wanted to do the loft up but with it being in a conservation area there was no way they were gonna let it through. So, we demolished the un-useable garage and had a 3x4m one of these put in. They pile foundation it and built it in 2 days. Ours cost £10k.

Green Retreats - Garden Studios, Garden Offices & Garden Rooms

I obviously don't know your situation, but you never know...

[organic]

Some answers from someone (me) who draws loft conversions and extensions for a living.

If you're extending to the side, one or two stories, it is aboslutely not permitted development and does need planning permission.

If you want to extend the first floor above the garage there are ways of doing it without the agreement of your neighbour, you'll build a new wall just inside the garage party wall. The front wall of the side extension (at first floor level) will be stepped back - usually 1.5m to avoid a "terracing effect" if your current or future neighbour decides to do a similar extension.

As for the loft conversion - typically you need about 2.5m ridge height, or there abouts, if you want to do it all to building regulations. With less than that it may still be possible with a "dropped ceiling".

Go up to your first floor now and look between the tops of the windows and the bottom of the ceiling. The ceiling can be lowered by that amount giving (sometimes) enough headroom for a loft conversion above. It's even possible to lower the ceilings further still but that's not always possible or desirable.
You'll almost certainly not get planning permission to raise the ridge height, especially on a semi. The only possible exception ebing if both you and your attached neighbour wanted to do the same thing - and even then it's not a given.

For a "room in roof" loft conversion you don't need planning permission and it doesn't come under "Permitted Development" either - it's internal so has nothing to do with the planning department. For a rear dormer you don't need planning permission provided (along with a few other rules) the volume of the dormer is less than 50 cubic metres (40 on a terrace) this kind of work usually come under Class B Permitted Development.
See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf...0082362_en.pdf for the full rules on permitted development.

The chances are that none of the above applies if you're in a conservation area, and the rules which apply in a conservation area will vary depending on the authority and whether it's subject to an Article 4 direction. It's not even worth thinking about this unless you're in an Article 4 conservation area though - and most conservation areas currently aren't.

[organic]

Zaz - being in a conservation area by no means precludes having a loft conversion. It can often mean no dormers, but room in roof is usually fine, especially if you use Velux's "conservation" roof windows.

[organic]

Oh - one last point.
If you've got a hip roof you can build it up into a gable roof under permitted development rights. It makes a massive difference to the amount of space in a loft.

See Roof construction - DIYWiki for examples of the different kinds of roof if you don't know what those terms mean.

[marathon]

Some answers from someone (me) who draws loft conversions and extensions for a living.

If you're extending to the side, one or two stories, it is aboslutely not permitted development and does need planning permission.

If you want to extend the first floor above the garage there are ways of doing it without the agreement of your neighbour, you'll build a new wall just inside the garage party wall. The front wall of the side extension (at first floor level) will be stepped back - usually 1.5m to avoid a "terracing effect" if your current or future neighbour decides to do a similar extension.

As for the loft conversion - typically you need about 2.5m ridge height, or there abouts, if you want to do it all to building regulations. With less than that it may still be possible with a "dropped ceiling".

Go up to your first floor now and look between the tops of the windows and the bottom of the ceiling. The ceiling can be lowered by that amount giving (sometimes) enough headroom for a loft conversion above. It's even possible to lower the ceilings further still but that's not always possible or desirable.
You'll almost certainly not get planning permission to raise the ridge height, especially on a semi. The only possible exception ebing if both you and your attached neighbour wanted to do the same thing - and even then it's not a given.

For a "room in roof" loft conversion you don't need planning permission and it doesn't come under "Permitted Development" either - it's internal so has nothing to do with the planning department. For a rear dormer you don't need planning permission provided (along with a few other rules) the volume of the dormer is less than 50 cubic metres (40 on a terrace) this kind of work usually come under Class B Permitted Development.
See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/pdf...0082362_en.pdf for the full rules on permitted development.

WOW that's helpful stuff

So...

The chap that said it may still be possible said that it really depends on the height above the stairs if BR would stop us. So when I'm asking him questions sould I query the fact the he said a 7ft height or just under was going to meet BR. He said BR had changed in recent years.

[zazen999]

Zaz - being in a conservation area by no means precludes having a loft conversion. It can often mean no dormers, but room in roof is usually fine, especially if you use Velux's "conservation" roof windows.

It does in ours; no roof windows allowed at all. Our neighbour had his done, but as it was a gable end he had to have the window matching exactly the original window below it. We just happen to be too visible to the road to get away with any - right in the centre of the heritage area.

To be honest, I prefer the garden room now. It's funky and really fab on a hot summer's day with the doors open and the breeze wafting through.

[marathon]

Some answers from someone (me) who draws loft conversions and extensions for a living.


As for the loft conversion - typically you need about 2.5m ridge height, or there abouts, if you want to do it all to building regulations. With less than that it may still be possible with a "dropped ceiling".

Go up to your first floor now and look between the tops of the windows and the bottom of the ceiling. The ceiling can be lowered by that amount giving (sometimes) enough headroom for a loft conversion above. It's even possible to lower the ceilings further still but that's not always possible or desirable.
You'll almost certainly not get planning permission to raise the ridge height, especially on a semi. The only possible exception ebing if both you and your attached neighbour wanted to do the same thing - and even then it's not a given.


.

The gap is just shy of a foot

To add - would lowing the ceiling be a nightmare of a job for the builder and for us to live through

Intestesting info about building above the garage. IT may mean we could end up with 4 double bedrooms. Add to the box room and create a room behind but with exstension flush to the back of the house which would mean a two story behind the garage. I can just see the cost mounting up

[marathon]

Good news!

The first comapny have said yes I would have head room of 6.4ft of head room. They will some floor joists level with the ones already in place.

Was quoted £31,112 including VAT

includes everthing including 2 very long velux windows to the front too make the most of our views and a dormar window of the full width of the loft. Giving us a bedroom of 19ft x 12ft with more under the sloping roof towards the front of the house.

They typically turn the job around in 4 weeks but say 5 weeks just incase any delay occurs.

To anyone who has had loft done does this sound good, another company coming later

[weekendwellies]

Great news Marathon.
I hope it goes well for you.

[trish60]

It`ll be worth it in the end although we do it ourselves so it it`s more like 40 weeks for us.

[marathon]

It`ll be worth it in the end although we do it ourselves so it it`s more like 40 weeks for us.

my OH can't even put a shelf up

Had two more quotes and they were £23,496 and £25,116 both including VAT so think the first one was quite high but the can finish it faster. Got another company coming Monday or have already said they think it would be about £25K

[organic]

If you're having a full width, flat roof dormer on the rear of the house, the bit between the stairs and the dormer face (that's the bit that faces the back of the house, the bits towards the sides are the dormer cheeks) is often the perfect place for an en-suite. I'll attach a picture of the last drawing that I did (3 bed detached, about the size of a normal lane-semi) to show you what I mean.

As for headroom, above the new stairs and between the new and the old stairs (assuming one is going over the other) there must be a full 2m of clear headroom. That's measured from the "nose line"... that is, if you lay a long, thin strip of wood down along your stairs it will touch the nose of each tread, that's the nose line and that's where they measure from.

The exception to the 2m rule is at the landing in the loft. If the last step you take has you walking in the same direction as the ridge, you can have 1.9m in the centre of the landing and 1.8m at the shoulder.

If there's not enough room for that, the last tread of the stair will be a square tread called a "quarter landing" and then there will be a single rise up to the loft floor.

Building regs do change from time to time, but to the best of my knowledge, for the past 5 years or so the regs about headroom and stairs have remained the same.

As for the dropped ceilings... it is a bigger job than a normal loft conversion, that's for sure. However, it's not too messy if it's done right.
One way is to remove the ceilings, chop the top of the walls off and put the new ceiling and floor in. Messy - as - all - hell ! ! !
The other (and far cleaner) way is to knock some holes into the 1st floor walls to take the new ceiling/loft-floor joists, put the joists in place and plasterboard the new ceilings. When that's done they go into the loft and rip the ceilings out from above. Slightly more work but FAR cleaner.

As for the burden on the fitter, that depends how efficient they are, but any fitter I'd trust with doing a loft conversion for me would take a dropped ceiling in their stride with no fuss or problems - it's a really standard thing. The one thing that needs to be done properly is tying the bottom of the roof spars to the "main trimmers" for the new loft floor. This is because ceiling joists tie the two sides of the roof together and stop them pushing the front and back walls of the house over (called "spread") removing the ceiling joists means the roof needs tying back in again. It's no big deal - unless it's not done properly/at all.

Whatever you go for though - even if you don't drop the ceilings - having a loft conversion done is a messy job and at some point there will be dust.


OK... a final point.
You've had 2 firms in (soon to be 3), both have taken a look, maybe a few measurements and come up with an estimated cost (not a quote!) - the thing is, they could all be envisaging slightly different things. There's nothing wrong with that at all, and most loft conversions are done that way... but there's another possibility.
You could get someone (an architect if you want, but equally it could be someone like me who just does loft conversions and extensions - something you actually don't need an architect for) to do the drawings and then get the firms to quote based upon the drawing. That way you are comparing like with like and, here's the kicker... you'll have to pay for the drawings either way. Either you'll pay the draughtsman/architect directly, or the loft firm will get the drawings done and the price for that will be included in the price you pay for the whole job.



A really final-final point (I just thought of this).
How old is the house you're in?
If it is old, does it have period doors and would it be a bad thing to lose them?
Most building control departments now want to see a fire door between every habitable room and the hall/stairs/landing that serves as the route from the loft to an outside door at ground floor level.

We've partnered with a local building inspector who is a very sensible and intelligent guy and he understands that it is far better to get people out of the house before a fire becomes serious rather than to rely on fire doors holding it back. To that end we have an agreed scheme where we leave the original doors (provided they are in good condition and properly fit the frames) and instead put a smoke detector in all habitable rooms and circulation areas (usually the entrance hall and landings) and a heat detector in the kitchen (no smoke detector - burning your toast won't set the system off). The idea being that if a fire starts somewhere, an alarm goes off in every room and everyone leaves the house in safety.

If you're in a modern house with modern doors a fire door setup might be preferable - but in an older (Victorian, Edwardian etc) house with period doors and features, interlinked smoke alarms like that are usually the way to go.

Sorry if that didn't make a whole lot of sense or it doesn't apply, but it's worth a mention. When they started insisting on fire doors (and before we agreed the early warning solution we now work to) quite a lot of unhappy people lost a lot of very old doors in pristine condition. If it is an issue in your house, I'd suggest discussing it with the fitters and see what they say.

It is possible to keep old doors (again, subject to condition) and different local authorities have different views on it - but it can be done.



EDIT...
OOPS! I forgot to attach that picture. Here, hopefully this will help.

[marathon]

If you're having a full width, flat roof dormer on the rear of the house, the bit between the stairs and the dormer face (that's the bit that faces the back of the house, the bits towards the sides are the dormer cheeks) is often the perfect place for an en-suite. I'll attach a picture of the last drawing that I did (3 bed detached, about the size of a normal lane-semi) to show you what I mean.

As for headroom, above the new stairs and between the new and the old stairs (assuming one is going over the other) there must be a full 2m of clear headroom. That's measured from the "nose line"... that is, if you lay a long, thin strip of wood down along your stairs it will touch the nose of each tread, that's the nose line and that's where they measure from.

[COLOR="Magenta"]Both companys said the stair measurements were fine but one company ( the company that have given us a written quote) included a skylight above the stairs, I believe it was something to do with rules on insulation. [/COLOR]
The exception to the 2m rule is at the landing in the loft. If the last step you take has you walking in the same direction as the ridge, you can have 1.9m in the centre of the landing and 1.8m at the shoulder.

If there's not enough room for that, the last tread of the stair will be a square tread called a "quarter landing" and then there will be a single rise up to the loft floor.

Building regs do change from time to time, but to the best of my knowledge, for the past 5 years or so the regs about headroom and stairs have remained the same.

OK... a final point.
You've had 2 firms in (soon to be 3), both have taken a look, maybe a few measurements and come up with an estimated cost (not a quote!) - the thing is, they could all be envisaging slightly different things. There's nothing wrong with that at all, and most loft conversions are done that way... but there's another possibility.

The first company were here for ages and took loads of measurements. There's is a fixed price and the company only does loft conversions. Once I give the go ahead they would do detailed drawings and unless I change my mind about the position of a wall or want different fittings etc the price stays the same. However I don't think we'll be using them anyway. The second company said £25k max £28k they were very good as he came up with suggestions and even gave me a good idea about the cost to build over the garage.

The third chap is actually really good friends with my inlaws and is taking a look to make sure I'm not ripped off by anyone else as he was suprised by the higher quote even more so when he realised I was only having a bedroom. Of course I will ask him to quote but his company normally only takes big jobs we'll see. He has said I should be looking at four different quotes.

You could get someone (an architect if you want, but equally it could be someone like me who just does loft conversions and extensions - something you actually don't need an architect for) to do the drawings and then get the firms to quote based upon the drawing. That way you are comparing like with like and, here's the kicker... you'll have to pay for the drawings either way. Either you'll pay the draughtsman/architect directly, or the loft firm will get the drawings done and the price for that will be included in the price you pay for the whole job.

Thanks thanks a really good idea


A really final-final point (I just thought of this).
How old is the house you're in?
If it is old, does it have period doors and would it be a bad thing to lose them?
Most building control departments now want to see a fire door between every habitable room and the hall/stairs/landing that serves as the route from the loft to an outside door at ground floor level.

both companies said fire alarms and the house was built in 1955 so doors are crap modern ones.

Many thanks for all the info, it's so very kind of you. The builders stand there telling me loads of stuff and I only take some of it in and the rest is lost so thankyou.