Plant related games

[Brengirl]

How many can remember picking the young leaves from the Hawthorne. Bread and cheese we called it.

[smallfrog]

Sorry to say this but poo sticks. In the horriable sense poo on a stick chasing people around and of course the nice pooh sticks chucking sticks over one side of the bridge and running to the otherside.

Was brought up in a small village and had lovely summers. Playing in fields, hay stacks and the like. Not sure if when the time comes i will let my kids have that much freedom which is such a shame.

[organic]

smallfrog - please give them the freedom you enjoyed.
If you don't they will have a much harder time growing up to be well balanced.

Or put another way, think of all those happy days and memories you have. Why on earth would you deny your own children those same memories even though we live in a safer world now than when any of use were growing up?

I know it'll be a wrench but when I've got kids I'll be sending them out the door to entertain themselves, and though I'll be mortified inside, and slightly scornful on the out, I'll be immensely proud when they come back bleeding or with broken bones - just like kids are supposed to.

Search for "Free Range Kids" to see what "America's Worst Mom" has to say on the matter (at his request, she dropped her 8 year old son off in Manhattan and let him ride the subway and busses home to Brooklyn). She talks a LOT of sense on the whole issue and certainly made me determined to give my kids all the freedom I can without getting arrested or neglecting my parental duties.

[di]

Sorry Organic,I absolutely loathe the phrase...'wait til you have kids of your own'...I rememeber just how much it used to P me off when we were desperately trying for our own.However,on this occasion.......
Your attitudes change so much when suddenly there's a little person that you've made,you love and you are predominantly responsible for.
I can see where you're coming from.I was brought up in a small village which was very closeknit and enjoyed most of the holidays out on my own or with friends having little mini adventures,I'd love mine to experience the same but a whole combination of things are stopping me.
It comes down to choice and similar to Chris' thread about getting your babe to sleep,we're all going to have different views and parenting techniques....none of them right and none wrong.Some of us feel sad enough that we don't feel able to let them go off on their own,to add to that a patronising guilt trip that we're not allowing them to 'grow up to be well balanced' really doesn't help much.
As for the comment about how proud you'll feel when they come home with broken bones...I take it that's at least a little tongue in cheek.If either of mine break a limb I'd rather I was somewhere close by and that they don't have a two or three mile trek to get home.(that is if they can walk)

[di]

I've just remembered one of our favourite things.
A river(or maybe extra big ditch?) by us that was almost always dry during the Summer used to have a huge tree(not sure if it was hazel/lime)with loads and loads of new shoots coming out from the bottom,each just over a foot long.We bent them all down and made our own little makeshift slide.

[organic]

Correct about tongue in cheek, a&d. I certainly won't be frantic about it though; when I walked a mile and a bit home with a broken collarbone it hurt, but I lived and laugh about it now. I'm sure my stomach will turn when I see them limping back or nursing an arm - but they'll get over it and so will I.

As for "wait til I've got my own"... I will, but I know for sure nothing will change. I don't think it'll be easy to let them go, but I know the harm of keeping them cooped up is far greater than any slim and distant possibility of harm if I don't. The bit about "well balanced" isn't a patronising guilt trip, it's said because I believe unsupervised contact with nature (could be the lake district, could be the local park) is not just "good" but really important for a child's physical, emotional and mental wellbeing.

I don't think there's any coincidence that as the freedom children experience has declined, rates of obesity and the likes have gone up.

Kids playing alone develop problem solving skills, diplomacy, an appreciation for the world and (in cases where they were allowed one) how to use a knife safely - it didn't take more than a couple of cuts for me to figure out the safe way to use my pocket knife.

None of it is patronising - but a real heartfelt desire to see kids in general being allowed the freedom their parents and grandparents enjoyed.

Not too long ago I was talking with a 16 and 18 year old about why they needed to join gyms rather than doing things like walking a couple of miles to school, biking to college and the likes and the answer pretty much boiled down to "paedophiles" for the former and "might get attacked" for the elder. One of them won't even get public transport relying entirely on lifts everywhere. I know the area they live in and it is far safer now than when I grew up in it. The variable - parent paranoia and a lack of freedom since they were old enough to need it.

Keeping kids close by stifles. If they don't want to go that's one thing, but keeping them is another and stopping a kid doing what kids should be doing just because the parents have an overbearing (and entirely understandable) desire to protect them is a case of the cure being worse than the illness.

I can see now that this has serious potential to become another "politics" or "cycling" thread though so I'll not make any more lengthy posts in it.



EDIT
Someone might have linked to it on here a while back, or maybe I saw it somewhere else entirely, but this article, especially the map and the doctor's comments towards the end, says a lot really quite well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nerations.html

[di]

I really can't be bothered either...just to let you know though that the 'wait til you have your own' was more to mean that you'll hopefully learn that we all have totally individual ways of bringing up our kiddies.Unless abuse or neglect are going on then there's no right nor wrong and therefore no need to plead with another parent to do things your way because you believe that doing things their way will stifle them.
Once you've got your own you'll hopefully learn how horrid it is when people criticise your methods and will therefore learn to not do the same to others

Good job you broke your collarbone and not your leg eh?!

PS...sorry Wayne...tis a 'fun thread'... shall bow out now.x

[FionaH]

Organic it is exhausting enough to read your extremely long posts on subject matter that you have a little knowledge of. As you do not have children could you please give it a rest? Ta

[organic]

Fiona - can you please explain why, in light of the lat line of my previous post (before the edit) you felt the need to say that? Just curious.

[FionaH]

Apologies, didn't make it to all the way to the end of the post where you said you weren't going to write long posts

[zazen999]

Cripes.

One minute we are reminiscing about holding buttercups under your chin and next it's another 'Daily Mail Says' story.

Well, we used to....oh it doesn't matter. It's spoilt now.

[Jeanied]

I believe unsupervised contact with nature (could be the lake district, could be the local park) is not just "good" but really important for a child's physical, emotional and mental wellbeing.

Kids playing alone develop problem solving skills, diplomacy, an appreciation for the world and (in cases where they were allowed one) how to use a knife safely -

I agree with lots of what you say, Organic, but can I put in a plea to make your posts a little shorter - or maybe post one main point at a time? I had the devil of a job quoting you selectively and I must admit I don't read long posts very thoroughly.

I just wanted to back up what you are saying by adding that youngsters really benefit from cubs, scouts and guides - that's what I did. And people like Organic are the people we need to lead the groups! Many more kids are growing up in urban environments these days - and that is one of the big differences from when some of us were young.

[HeyWayne]

Thanks for turning yet another thread into a party political broadcast by organic.

Now, SHUT UP!!!

Cheese and mice!

[organic]

Wow - a nice, level headed, diplomatic and completely unnecessary post from one of our forum moderators, made three days after my previous post and 4 days after the actual issue.
Nice work Wayne.

Behaviour becoming of a moderator?

Apparently so. The mind boggles.

[bobleponge]

Sadly, behaviour of a moderator totally warranted.
I also urge you to keep your posts shorter Organic, 1 word is generally sufficient, after that I switch off the whole thread, which is quite a shame really.