Is cheating EVER acceptable?

[reetnproper]

Having watched todays German Grand Prix which was won by Alonso following a thinly veiled 'team orders' (cheating in my lexicon) to poor Massa to concede his place , I thought I'd pose the question of - Is cheating ever acceptable?

This isn't the first time Ferrari have instructed their 2nd rank driver to concede his position to the 1st rank driver (Barricello was forced to do just this when Schumacher was behind him several years ago).

A rule is now in place which is supposed to outlaw this practice, by preventing orders being issued during a race which would affect the final outcome. So how have Ferrari been allowed to get away with it this time?

Alonso was behind Massa (though not by much) when a team radio conversation was aired in which Massa was told "Alonso is faster than you" followed by "Can you confirm you understand". A short while after this Alonso "passed" Massa easily and went on to win.

Whilst most of the BBC comentators were non-plussed by this (in my opinion) despicable and blatant cheating, one of them seem to be of the opinion that, as Alonso was further up the championship leader board than Massa, it was acceptable!

Personally, I can't think of ANY situation where cheating is acceptable and feel that all this has done is, once again, bring F1 into disrepute.

There was absolutely no advantage gained overall because, realistically speaking, there is no way Alonso (or Ferrari) can win either the drivers of constructors championships - unless Red Bull and McClaren both suffered phenomenal bad luck for EVERY ONE of the remaining races and fail to finish in the points.

Pointless, absolutely pointless!

[lizzylemon]

There was absolutely no advantage gained overall because, realistically speaking, there is no way Alonso (or Ferrari) can win either the drivers of constructors championships - unless Red Bull and McClaren both suffered phenomenal bad luck for EVERY ONE of the remaining and fail to finish in the points.

Pointless, absolutely pointless!

Well perhaps not from a sponsors point of view - it maybe that Alonso / Ferrari had a contract agreement that A would be placed at least rank X to keep everyone happy. So if the other chap won instead of A, A would have dropped his position and then the sponsors would have been peed off? Maybe?

Or does how the drivers win in this race affect how they placed on the starting grid at the next race? If yes, it probably worked out that if A won this race he would get a much better starting position in the next race than the other guy could have got if he'd won - tactics maybe?

or
I could be blowing hot air

[reetnproper]

Or does how the drivers win in this race affect how they placed on the starting grid at the next race? If yes, it probably worked out that if A won this race he would get a much better starting position in the next race than the other guy could have got if he'd won - tactics maybe?

No. Each race is a new start and is not affected by the previous race.


Reet
x

[lizzylemon]

Ferrari 'team orders' mar Alonso win - Yahoo! Eurosport

[SarzWix]

Absolutely out of order in our opinion, and yet again Ferrari get away with it Dirty team, who employ dirty drivers... Schumacher must feel right at home!

[bobleponge]

I couldnt vote as none of the categories fitted exactly how I feel.

As a sports nut, I give the example of England playing, for example in the rugby world cup final.
Behind by 2 points in the final minute, the England winger breaks through the line of defence, heading for the corner. The opposition full back meets him just before the try line, the winger dives over the line. The ball is dislodged from the wingers hand, and is knocked on. (for those none rugby fans, this means the try shouldnt be counted).
BUT... with the speed of the play neither the referee nor the touch judges were close enough. The tv replays are inconclusive due to the angles of the 2 players bodies. The England winger knows absolutely that he knocked the ball on. Does he admit this to the referee? Quite clearly he wouldnt.
Is this cheating? Yes
Would I be in the slightest bit bothered, knowing that England had won the world cup? No no and once again no.

Not sure what that says about me, but I have always believed that second place is first loser. Would I cheat myself? If I was in the situation of the England winger, as described above, I would do the same as him.

[Hilary B]

Whether there are EVER circumstances that cheating is 'tolerable' depends on the definition of 'cheating', and what (if any) gain there is to be made from it.
If there is something to gain by cheating, then it is wrong. On the rare occasions when something isn't exactly as it should be, but there is no benefit (even indirect) to the person who has bent the rules, well then it depends on precise circumstances. Is it cheating when an adult lets a child win? Probably, but if it results in the child continuing to be interested until they can win on merit (when otherwise that child might have given up completely), is that entirely wrong, or the lesser of available evils?

[Hilary B]

I couldnt vote as none of the categories fitted exactly how I feel.

As a sports nut, I give the example of England playing, for example in the rugby world cup final.
Behind by 2 points in the final minute, the England winger breaks through the line of defence, heading for the corner. The opposition full back meets him just before the try line, the winger dives over the line. The ball is dislodged from the wingers hand, and is knocked on. (for those none rugby fans, this means the try shouldnt be counted).
BUT... with the speed of the play neither the referee nor the touch judges were close enough. The tv replays are inconclusive due to the angles of the 2 players bodies. The England winger knows absolutely that he knocked the ball on. Does he admit this to the referee? Quite clearly he wouldnt.
Is this cheating? Yes
Would I be in the slightest bit bothered, knowing that England had won the world cup? No no and once again no.

Not sure what that says about me, but I have always believed that second place is first loser. Would I cheat myself? If I was in the situation of the England winger, as described above, I would do the same as him.

I don't know whether I would 'keep quiet' about a dubious referee decision in my favour (which is pretty much what you describe above), but if I did, I know I would feel guilty for doing it. I think there ARE players who would 'own up', but probably not in that sort of match!

[Caro]

To me, Bob, that's not cheating. It happened accidentally. You'd need to be a saint (and very thick-skinned) to say, whoopsi, my error, you win.

Ferrari, on the other hand, deliberately made Massa lose. no wonder he had a face like thunder up on the podium.

FIA = Ferrari International Appreciation

[bobleponge]

I doubt very very much whether any player in the situation I described would own up.

Caro, in that situation, it didnt happen accidentally. The defending full back wanted exactly that to happen, he wanted the ball to be dislodged so that the try wouldnt be scored and his nation would win the world cup.
I do agree though that you would have to be a saint to admit it, as I said above, I doubt very much whether any player would.
Thus cheating is accepted in professional sport, although generally only by the winners.
Just ask the Irish and the French about "The hand of Frog" or the English and Argentinians about "The hand of God."

[Glutton4...]

I posted earlier, but the post-eating monsters must've eaten it.

If an international athlete, running in the Olympic games, stopped and let a team mate pass and win the race, what would everyone say!!!?

Ferrari are a 'dirty' team, and should be disqualified. More fool the idiot who obeyed the order too! A race is a race. This makes the whole thing a farce.

[beefy]

Take Premiership Football for example - professional diving trying to gain a free kick or a penalty to get an advantage- to me a clear case of unacceptable cheating .
Mix large amounts of money and expected results by sponsors and this is the situation you end up with.

[cupcake]

Just par for the post with Ferrari. Not that the powers that be would ever consider upsetting them by a fine! Deducting points?, dear me no!

[zazen999]

He who pays the piper.....

[dogsbody]

$100.000 fine (peanuts to them) and referral to the World Council for further penalty (read cover up). As someone involved in grass roots motorsport where infringements do cost money, races, etc. this just makes me cross.

As for cheating in general, it upsets me when people get away with it, but if the rules can be bent legally then they need changing (I will always tell after the fact).