Dog advice please.

[di]

Oh!!!...good job they seem to be few and far between and out of our price range

I've phoned nearly every vet and pet shop in and around Ipswich...most have been really helpful and popped to have a look on their boards...bar one which just happens to be the only one that's part of a large chain and always has far more staff than customers...apparently they have lots of adverts on their board and I can feel free to browse at my leisure

I've not totally ruled out the Springer but want to check out as much as possible before buying.

[weekendwellies]

I've not totally ruled out the Springer but want to check out as much as possible before buying.

This is the best thing to do before adding any animal to your household.

[di]

This is the best thing to do before adding any animal to your household.

I know you can't really compare chooks to dogs but the big mistake we made when we got them was to rush into buying 10 Isa's....and then discovering how many other beautiful breeds there are to choose from

That said,I think so long as you get roughly what you want with a dog it weedles it's way into your heart/family and you wouldn't swap it for the world.

[SueA]

Hope you're feeling better soon Di, probably all this concentrating on dog breed issues isn't helping!
Just going back to the friend I mentioned who got a springer years ago & couldn't cope with it, she ended up getting a black cocker cross & was very happy with him.
As you say when you see the dog that's for you, you'll know it. We went looking at a 'puppy supermarket' type place before we knew any better & were looking for a 'red' coloured boxer but as soon as I set eyes on a little brindle girl in one litter I knew we had to have her & they put a cross on her tummy so that we could reserve her & come back with the money next day as we didn't have enough. They did provide full papers & information on her parents so we could have checked up on them but luckily she was perfect in every way!

[Hilary B]

The only Border Terriers I've ever met were lovely dogs, but the key word is still 'terrier', which quickly becomes 'terror' (in the nuisance sense) if brought up wrong (probably the problem with TEB's neighbours dogs).
If you want a pup, DEFINITELY see at least the mother.
Many breeds which do not DEMAND long walks get on nicely if they GET a long walk every day. Do you really want something that will be difficult any time you CAN'T give it that much time, or if you want to go out for the evening etc? A placid dog that still let's you know it is enjoying life can be the best answer, but what really counts is that you fall in love with the dog when you meet it (as long as there are no specific problems), and preferably that it falls in love with you.
I loved Gemma when I first saw her, but the clincher was that she also chose me. Rescues are a different category to puppies, so it won't be that easy.
I doubt there is ANY pure breed (or 'designer cross') that hasn't got potential problems, the important bit is to find one YOU like!

[di]

We 'think' we've found one.
We haven't been to see it yet but have made an appointment for Sunday.
I'm not sure if I'm worrying more than I need but I can't help it

It's a 'Sprocker' which is a Springer/Cocker cross.
Both Mum and Dad are (apparently)trial dogs and the owner said they have to be extremely healthy dogs for this and both parents have frequent vet checks.....but the pups haven't!
Her view is that both parents have no health problems and the puppies are healthy so it's not needed...as a buyer should I be looking for ones that have been checked or is it not essential?
If we got it it would come with four weeks free insurance which made me think she's a genuine decent breeder?(or am I just falling for scam?)

She also has Boarding kennels and from looking on the internet they look very good.

Thoughts........?(please)

[OverWyreGrower]

Both Mum and Dad are (apparently)trial dogs and the owner said they have to be extremely healthy dogs for this and both parents have frequent vet checks.....but the pups haven't!
Her view is that both parents have no health problems and the puppies are healthy so it's not needed...as a buyer should I be looking for ones that have been checked or is it not essential?

Setting aside what breed of dog you're looking at, as this goes for any breed of dog that has breed specific genetic tests....

A vet check isn't the same as specific breed tests.
Boxers are heart-tested by a cardiologist to check for specific problems - a vet wouldn't spot these issues. Breeding from Boxers with bad hearts can mean that a pup might not make it to their 2nd birthday.

Both Cocker and Springer Spaniels can have a genetic condition called PRA (Progressive Retinal Atrophy). They can either have the condition, or carry it and pass it on to pups. You wouldn't know a pup has this until their eyesight starts to fade and they go blind. This can appear as early as 18 months to 2 years old. A breeder can have a DNA test to find out whether their dog carries this condition. They shouldn't be bred from.

The chances are that this lady's dogs are fine, however, you have no idea. Just because her dogs are ok and healthy, doesn't mean the pups will be.

[Nicos]

Hmmm...why not ask for her vets details- and their permission given to the vet to talk with you.
If they've anything to hide then I bet they won't comply!!

(One thing which has crossed my mind is how much exercise does a particular breed need? Are you going to be able to fulfill their needs with having a young family???
tbh, I don't know much about different dog breeds and their needs , but having seen lots of Cesar Millan programmes, I am aware you need to find a dog whose exercise requirements fit in with what your family can provide on a regular basis!)

I'm sure you've looked into that...but just thought it important to mention it

Fingers crossed all goes well with this puppy...can you take it home on Sunday if all's OK???

fingers crossed gal!

[di]

Sorry OW,I'm a little thick at times...is what you're saying that having eveidence of Parents checks more important than the puppies being vet checked?

Nicos,cheers...if all concerns are put to bed then we would more than likely be bringing it home then...Ash has asked me everyday this week when he comes out of school if we've got a dog yet...he's got in his head we're getting either an Alsation or Greyhound though...Daisy keeps putting him right and saying they're too big

We are a pretty active family and most days the kiddies want to go to the park...looks like the answer will be yes more often now...one of the reasons for waiting until now is that they're old enough to leave in the play area whilst I take the dog round the park for a good run,although I suspect for a few weeks the kiddies will prefer being with me...OK the dog....to playing in the play area.We do lots of forest and beach walks also.It will also be good for me during the day.I know I could go for daily walks without a dog but I really miss the Nursery run now that Ash is at school,it used to be almost 5 miles a day ion total.
The only 'day out' that we're used to that could prove tricky is the zoo,but our neighbour has said she'll either let it out and take for a walk or have for the whole day.(and tbh now that we have zoo cards we rarely do a whole day anyway,an afternoon is usually enough.)

[Nicos]

woohoo...Sunday then???

Sounds like a dog will fit in perfectly with your life-style!

.....ya know we'll be needing piccies

[di]

.....ya know we'll be needing piccies

Don't quite know what's up with the computer but it's decided it doesn't like loading pics anymore...sure I can get a friend to pop one onto FB though and one of the clever mods might be able to transfer it to here

I just spoke to Andi(he's dared to take his bankcard to work and I need it!!!)I told him my concerns and that there are a few pedigree Cockers in the area but he has his heart set on the cross and in his opinion the vet checks aren't essential...Oh to be so worry free

[OverWyreGrower]

Sorry OW,I'm a little thick at times...is what you're saying that having eveidence of Parents checks more important than the puppies being vet checked?

Sort of yes... when breeding a litter, it's usually pretty obvious if there are unhealthy pups, or any with deformities etc. In Murphy's litter, the runt of the litter only lasted a week, even with hand-feeding every 2 hours.

However, lots of breeds carry genetic problems (hip dysplasia, heart problems, eye problems etc) and in lots of these, the parents don't actually 'have' the condition, but are carriers for it instead.

In Boxers, they are heart-tested and scored between 0 and 5 (tested for Cardiomyopathy and Atoric Stenosis). A dog with a score higher than 1 is hardly ever bred from. If 2 dogs with scores of 4 or 5 were bred from, there is a horribly high incidence that every puppy would have some sort of heart defect and may not grow into adulthood.
By testing as many dogs as possible, and then only breeding from those with good scores (who conform to the breed specification), the Boxer breed clubs hope to phase out as much heart disease as possible.

In terms of eye problems (PRA, RPED etc) a dog can carry the defective gene, and not be affected. However, this can be passed on to the pups, who will actually be affected by the gene. PRA can start out at night-blindness, gradually leading to complete blindness. Affected animals have two copies of the faulty PRA gene, one inherited from each parent. Carrier animals have one faulty copy of the PRA gene but appear perfectly healthy and cannot be distinguished from normal dogs by eye screening. Normal animals are entirely free of the faulty gene. Until recent years breeders had no way of identifying which category their breeding stock fell into as the only screening test available in the UK (eye testing by a BVA Panellist) could only determine if a dog was clinically clear of the disease at the time of testing. It could not determine whether the dog was a carrier or whether the dog would go on to develop the disease at some time in the future. For some time, a marker gene test for prcd-PRA had been available a comapny called Optigen which gave a good indication of the status of dogs tested. Optigen then identified the mutation gene which causes prcd-PRA in English Cockers and this test is now available to breeders in the UK & Europe as well as in the US, enabling breeders to identify whether their dogs are genetically clear, carriers or affected with the disease (from CSC/Health & Welfare)

The idea is to 'clean up' the gene pool of these breeds, and only breed from non-affected dogs. However, random 'pet' breeders don't often test, thus leaving potential puppy buyers at risk.

*Sorry, climbing off my soap box now*

[Glutton4...]

Fingers crossed for you Di. We're lost without our dogs. Ours went last November, and my folks lost their last one a month ago. I am dog-less for the first time in my life, and I hate it.

My friend has a 'spare' (ie unsold) JRT bitch puppy, and I'm desperate to go and see her. However, as I'm recouperating, and not supposed to do anything, it would be rather a daft move.

Like most Spaniels, I expect it will be lively, and will be for most of its life, but, from what you've said, you appear to be a busy family, so I expect it will fit in fine. Good luck, and don't forget the piccies!

[weekendwellies]

Her view is that both parents have no health problems and the puppies are healthy so it's not needed...as a buyer should I be looking for ones that have been checked or is it not essential?
If we got it it would come with four weeks free insurance which made me think she's a genuine decent breeder?(or am I just falling for scam?)

She also has Boarding kennels and from looking on the internet they look very good.

Thoughts........?(please)

I would still insist on a vet check.
She may well be genuine, but see if you can come to some agreement with her that before you accept the pup permanently you will get a vet of your own choice to check it out, and if there is something wrong with it she will accept it back.
You probably dont want to be stuck with something sickly that will cost a fortune in operations or medication for the next decade. And it wont be much fun for the kiddies having a sickly dog rather than a nice healthy one.
Its worth paying a few quid at the start for a vet to check it out.

[Nicos]

Just another thought...with breeds which are known to have problems...do Insurance companies require a certificate to say the've been checked out?