Is there any such thing as organic?

[nick the grief]

Ah but is that truly organic or is it a highly processsed gloup

I personally grow against my consience for instance.

I don't use Chemical fersiliser or sprays on my veg crops. My CHrysanths however I am quite happy to use sprays on them because this is the only way I can control some Diseases (White Rust - another import from the continent) and I feed them with Chempak Fertiliser because I want/need consitency.

I do use muck on my lottie but I have no idea if the animals that it came from are pumped full of steroids & antibiotics and I am quite at ease to resort to the use of Roundup if needed.

So as you can see I try to keep to organic principle where possible but I truly believe in pragmatism.

If it's a choice between starvation & GM crops what do you think you would do if you live in Africa?

[smallblueplanet]

.....If it's a choice between starvation & GM crops what do you think you would do if you live in Africa?

But it isn't though - although Monsanto would have you believe otherwise!

[nick the grief]

Don't ask Monsanto - Ask Live aid

[Lesley Jay]

LJ - but is butter truly organic if it has flown from New Zealand? It may not harm the consumer of the butter - but all that CO2?

Johnty the question was about organic British cream. We have strict organic regulations in this country. I would never buy organic from abroad.

[johnty greentoes]

Johnty the question was about organic British cream. We have strict organic regulations in this country. I would never buy organic from abroad.

You would never buy organic from abroad because we have better regulations, or because it's produced so much CO2 in its travels, or both?

[Lesley Jay]

I have to be honest Johnty it is the strict regulations that we have in this country for organic produce rather than the CO2.

How can we be sure that organic produce from abroad is really organic and that they have the same strict guidelines for the care of the animals?

Non organic produce and organic produce from abroad should in my opinion be virtually banned. Lettuce and spring onions from Asia?? How bloody ridiculous!

Before anyone says about bananas, oranges and other fruits that we can't grow in quantity in this country I did say 'virtually'.

[Alison]

Isn't the Soil Association looking at whether imported food should be labelled as organic anyway? I don't want to import due to traceability and carbon issues but do make an exception of this for bananas.

Back to the original comment, no I don't want my cream flown around the country, should be no need. Am reading a very interesting book at the moment (if you can ignore the Americanisms) called "The Omnivore's Dilemma: The Search for the Perfect Meal in a Fast-food World". Have read the first section which shows how most of what the average American eats is based on corn, but mainly where you don't expect it. Very worrying and am not sure we're always much better here.

[yoanbob]

grow your own shortbread, its the only way to save the animals and the planet!

[beefy]

Heres another question for the debate .
Is something really organic if the electric used to produce / process it comes from a nuclear power station? Discuss.

[smallblueplanet]

I think it should all be bicycle powered and we could all knit our own packing - does that add to the debate?

[pigletwillie]

Nuclear power is carbon free, whereas coal, oil and gas isnt.

If people understood seasonality there would be no demand for sprin onions from Egypt. Personally I think that if something has to travel more than a set number of miles it should not be classed as organic unless it isnt able to be produced here, (bananas etc).

[smallblueplanet]

Its not about how far its travelled its about how its produced - how far can your non-organic spring onions travel?

How far can you transport animals to slaughter, how much antibiotics can you keep them topped up with? How much pesticides can you spray over your workers?

As far as I'm concerned its about conditions in farming, conditions of the soil, of the animals, of the people who 'grow' the produce. Those conditions should be as good as they possibly can be and pumping things and people full of chemicals isn't good - that's what I'm bothered about first and then I'll consider how far they've travelled.

For me organic growing conditions take precendent.

[pigletwillie]

Erm, if they are certified organic, then chemicals dont happen, however the carbon footprint of sending refridgerated onions across the world is staggering and totally undoes the good that the organic certificate gives.

If the EU kept there noses out, most farms would still be able to slaughter on site, nullifying the need to move live animals about at all.

[smallblueplanet]

No it doesn't nullify the conditions those 'foreign' organic products were grown in at all.

If you want to be particular you could demand the transporters of these products make themselves carbon neutral.

Why aren't you all going on about non-organic products flown in from all around the world??? They're even worse pesticides/herbicides & airmiles!

Except animal movement isn't just about slaughtering them - we've sheep in our fields here brought in from Wales to be fattened/thinned.

[madderbat]

I don't know much about chemistry, but I do remember there are two types: organic and inorganic.
Since all growing things are 'organic' it has always seemed a misnomer to me to talk of 'organic' farming.
Even petroleum products stem from an 'organism' (trees originally I believe). I know that there are some man-made chemicals which are pretty nasty (don't ask me for chapter an verse at this stage of the weekend), but what is this 'organic' business really about? Are there any chemists among us who can enlighten me as to the difference please?