Is there any such thing as organic?

[smallblueplanet]

Soil Association link to their standards.

"Buy something organic
When you buy something that is certified organic, whether it’s an apple, a packet of crisps, a T-shirt or a bottle of shampoo you are buying a product that’s not been adulterated with hidden harmful ingredients or chemicals. Your purchase is also supporting a system that respects human health, animals, wildlife and the environment. Buying products with our logo brings the added assurance of high standards. Buying organic is also about investing your money in a dynamic movement. The Soil Association is committed to always improving organic standards, pressing for policy changes and lobbying on issues like GM."

There is lots more info if you follow the SA link (above).

The key of course being 'certified organic' ie Soil Association and other organisations. Not as we previously discussed on the thread about B&Q chicken poo 'organic' cos it was made of organic compounds.

[beefy]

The "Soil Association " seems to be doing all right for a bunch of aging hippies that decided that their version of "organic farming" was the be all and end all and that it should be pushed down everybodies throats.Who decided that they were the standard that good food would have to comply to ? They did so thats all right then.

BTW SBP my post about Chicken pellets was to inform people that they were on a buy one get one free offer .

[smallblueplanet]

....
BTW SBP my post about Chicken pellets was to inform people that they were on a buy one get one free offer .

And you labelled it 'ORGANIC' chicken pellets and all I did was point out that there are two sorts of 'organic'. Perhaps you don't mind B&Q confusing consumers, but I do.

And so do the old hippies at the Soil Association -

"The EU regulation only covers food products
The term organic can be used on non food products without anybody checking the ingredients because the term is not covered in EU law in the same way as it is for food. To protect consumers from being mislead, the Soil Association has developed a number of our own standards for non food products."

linky

[smallblueplanet]

The "Soil Association " seems to be doing all right for a bunch of aging hippies....

At least they work to standards. Not like some.

[SueA]

Now now, no fighting, let's all agree to disagree on this one. Organic & non-organic methods of growing & transportation probably each have their pros & cons, all we can do is strive for a healthy balance & try not to kill each other or the earth in the meantime.

[smallblueplanet]

Sorry sueA - don't see how we can have 'peace, love & understanding' if we're not willing to fight for it!

[SueA]

I know, sometimes even the meekest of us turn!

[JennieAtkinson]

Everything has to be in balance and what might work in terms of "organic" transportation in one area of the country might not in another. Living on a (relatively) remote island, we have to rely on a ferry or plane to get us to the Mainland, if we need medical care and sometimes that has to work the opposite way for food. We can't for instance be self sufficient in milk during the winter months.

So ........ yes it has to be a balance, but everyone's "balance" will be different!

[Snadger]

Everything has to be in balance and what might work in terms of "organic" transportation in one area of the country might not in another. Living on a (relatively) remote island, we have to rely on a ferry or plane to get us to the Mainland, if we need medical care and sometimes that has to work the opposite way for food. We can't for instance be self sufficient in milk during the winter months.

So ........ yes it has to be a balance, but everyone's "balance" will be different!

Whatever the balance, the plants take in there food at the cation exchange level and don't care whether its organically derived NPK or not!
I use farmyard manure as a soil conditioner but I fertilise with organic and sometimes inorganic fertilisers. I consider myself to be semi-organic, but not religeously so!
As Jennie says it's all about balance!

[beefy]

As Jennie says it's all about balance!

And that is exactly what I am trying to find out here .Where the balance is and to throw in a few things to make people look at their ideas and make them think ie is it truly organic if nuclear power is involved in production/ processing and how "organic " is food that has been transported over long distances .

[smallblueplanet]

And that is exactly what I am trying to find out here .Where the balance is and to throw in a few things to make people look at their ideas and make them think ie is it truly organic if nuclear power is involved in production/ processing and how "organic " is food that has been transported over long distances .

Well perhaps you are missing the point - if these things are involved in all food production which would you choose? Organic or factory farmed?

[beefy]

The title of the thread is -Is there any such thing as organic? To me this is a discussion about organic food and what makes up organic food and the processes involved.All I want to do is question this , dont think this is missing the point .There are more than two choices SBP - organic is one ,factory farming is another but what about all the small farms that cant afford to pay the Soil Association the high fees each year but still produce good high quaility food.

[smallblueplanet]

...but what about all the small farms that cant afford to pay the Soil Association the high fees each year but still produce good high quaility food.

What about them? They produce good food, and they've no doubt benefitted from the market awareness that the demand for organic products has produced.

Without standards of production we would find ourselves back in Victorian times with some unscrupulous producers replacing flour with lead.

The 'Soil Association' (or those aging old hippy's if you prefer) detail on their website the conditions that their certified produce is produced under. Other 'organic' organisations do the same, there are differences but the consumer can find out what they are.

Therefore there can be 'organic' products. You may not like the fact that they've been transported long distances or grown with 'nuclear' energy but they are still certified organic.

ps why aren't you bothered about the regulations affecting non-organic growers, surely the ability to 'factory farm' food and produce large quantities of cheap produce will affect small growers more?

[SueA]

As someone has probably aready pointed out the only way we can be certain of the method of production of anything is if we all rear & slaughter our own animals, knit jumpers out of fleece from our own sheep, grow our own fruit & veg. etc. Even when something says 'Organic' on the label we can't be sure of the truth as was discovered with 'Free Range' on boxes of eggs which turned out not to be! We just have to take things on trust & hope that organisations such as the 'Soil Association' can enforce some kind of order. I'm pretty sure that produce which has travelled thousands of miles sometimes appears in shops as 'local produce' & we're none the wiser, unscrupulous people will always try to bend the rules & the people who suffer are honest producers & the consumer.

[beefy]

Ok I give in . If you cant get past the Soil association and think for yourself I have nothing more to add to what was an interesting question posed by Johnty Greentoes.All I wanted to do was explore how different things would affect your views .If I want the Soil Associations views I'll go to their website but I really wanted the views of the individual.As we cant seem to get to this I wont bother replying to this thread anymore.