Is there any such thing as organic?

[Alison]

Having a bad day, Beefy?

Seriously though, can see some of where you're coming from but most of that is really down to the definition of Organic and that's just a word. Ideally I want my food to have been produced as locally as possible with the minimum amount of energy (nuclear or other) expended and without the use of undue chemicals. This is kind of in excess of Organic in the sense of the SA definition and is more what I would call an ideal. Personally I would rather go without certain food types (at least most of the time) than not be at ease with my consience. It is almost impossible to get this to the extent I would like across the board but as various people above say, every bit counts.

[johnty greentoes]

As near to organic as we are likely to get

I think we've agreed that "Pure organic" is an impossibility and most of us are fairly content with something that approximates to it, i.e.

• no imposed chemicals (only accidental ones - air pollution blah, blah, blah)
• fewest possible food miles (less than 50?)

It is interesting that people are wanting to add the food miles element into an organic debate.

What do people think of the 2 bullets above?

[OverWyreGrower]

Good points JTG

Could we add something like:

"Humanely treated livestock" as a third point

[johnty greentoes]

Updated list after contrib from OWG

• no imposed chemicals (only accidental ones - air pollution blah, blah, blah)
• fewest possible food miles (less than 50?)
• humanely treated livestock

[smallblueplanet]

...

• fewest possible food miles (less than 50?)

It is interesting that people are wanting to add the food miles element into an organic debate.

So are these standards going to be ensured, or do we trust the producer?

Apparently argentinian beef can become scottish beef when processed (a lot less food miles at first glance) according to Beeb tv this morning.

[johnty greentoes]

SBP - I suppose the only guarantee is the one you can give yourself about what you have produced on your plot - otherwise there does mave to be mistrust/monitoring/Food Standards Agency/Standards and red-tape doesn't there?

[smallblueplanet]

I have no problem with the aging old hippy's at the Soil Association - I'm a historian and I've seen that unfortunately things have to be enforced by law. So work with the law.

We'd all like 'organic' without the rules & red tape, but were there's money to be made then advantage is taken.

[johnty greentoes]

I have no problem with the aging old hippy's at the Soil Association - I'm a historian and I've seen that unfortunately things have to be enforced by law. So work with the law.

We'd all like 'organic' without the rules & red tape, but were there's money to be made then advantage is taken.

I agree Manda - it's about £

[Hazel at the Hill]

Also:

Humanely slaughtered livestock

No good having happy piggies etc then subject them to some terrible practises at the abbatoir.

[SimonCole]

Can you not have organic livestock that are reared in factories?

Another one for the list is to help local wildlife.

[johnty greentoes]

Updated list after contrib from HATH

• no imposed chemicals (only accidental ones - air pollution blah, blah, blah)
• fewest possible food miles (less than 50?)
• humanely reared and humanely slaughtered livestock