Beliefs and stuff

[smallblueplanet]

"....Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values. We seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves...."

My take on this is that we can't make sense of the world, although we may create meaning and purpose for ourselves.

Thats not quite exactly what I mean, but while we try to make sense of the universe for ourselves, how does the universe make sense of itself?

[muckdiva]

Love the words at the bottom of your messages SBP

Yet Nature is made better by no mean
But Nature makes that mean; so over that art
Which you say adds to Nature, is an art
That Nature makes.

Though couldn't help but be reminded of the story where a vicar is admiring an old boy's garden. The vicar says, "Isn't mother nature marvellous" to which the old boy replies under his breath, "well I didn't rate the job she did when she had had the garden to herself."

[pigletwillie]

SBP, there will always be things that we dont know,and realistically how can you reason what is unknown. In the bible God tells us that there are unknowns. It goes right back to Adam and Eve in Genesis, being told not to eat from the tree of knowledge. The serpent tempts Eve into eating the apple and from then on its all down hill for her and adam as they now know that they are naked and hence try to hide from God and wear fig leaves for modesty.

How do you reason the evil in the world/ Although this evil does make some sense of it all especially the spiritual battle between good and evil which is fought everyday and that people (of any belief) fight with themselves on an individual level every day, people fail because of temptation, shame, fear and a thousand other reasons.

Mark Twain said

"Human beings are the only animal that blushes, and the only one that needs to"

which somewhat shows our failings irespective of faith or creed. Things of evil origin happen everyday in the world, Rwanda, car bombings in Iraq, murder, child abuse to name but a few. I dont believe in the devil that is popularised in fiction, red with horns, cloven hooves and a trident, but that there is certainly an evil element present in or around us.

When the devil (or evil) tempts you, he never shows you the end of the story at the begining when you become snared. Some famous bod or other once said,

"I dont believe in God, but when it comes to the devil well, thats another story, he just keeps advertising"

And doesnt he Just.

Tony, as for God being male or female, can God have a gender. I feel that much of organised religion has made facts fit how they want them too and the fact that God was supposedly male fitted in well with the dominance of male over female for much of history. In the Bible, God was never seen, people only heard Gods word or were visited by Angels so any mental picture we may have on gender or appearance is down to what we have read or seen via some media or other.

To create alpine strawberries was such a good move though. It wouldnt be the same without them.

[Snadger]

I was always advised not to discuss politics and religion in any depth for fear of offending people.....
However, last week I got into quite an in depth conversation with a vicar who was gently pushing for my views and eventually she said I was a 'humanist'.
Needless to say, that was news to me and I had to google it!
Think she's right you know!

http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/...sp?chapter=309

There are more of us around than I'd realised (36%)

perhaps if I had chatted to a few more people earlier, I might have found this out!

Interesting site Nicos! Still doesn't fit in fully with my beliefs though, think I must be more of a Paganistic Humanist if there is such an animal!

[shirlthegirl43]

Thanks for that link Nicos. I can go along with that way of thinking with just a few differences - and those only small ones.

[madderbat]

Nice observation PW, I considered the roots of evil some time ago and remembered from my Bible studies that the words 'Be not afraid' cropped up on a regular basis. It seems to me that fear is the worst thing for causing grief.

If we stop being afraid of each other, of losing our material 'stuff', of not having enough, it may be possible to live together in peace.

When it comes down to it the essentials for life are, in my book: 'somewhere to live, someone to love and something to do' (incorporating having enough to eat etc.)

I'd like to start a campaign against fear. It causes more damage than anything else I think.

[smallblueplanet]

"The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, Mephistopheles - throughout history the prince of darkness, the Western world's most powerful symbol of evil, has taken many names and shapes. Russell here chronicles the remarkable story of the devil from antiquity to the present. In recounting how past generations have personified wickedness, he deepens our understanding of the ways in which people have dealt with the enduring problem of radical evil."

The Prince of Darkness: Radical Evil and the Power of Good in History by Jeffrey B Russell Amazon Book link

Chronicles the story of the Devil from ancient times to the present, detailing diverse cultures' perceptions of evil and an evil being and examining beliefs toward the Devil today.

A very interesting book that a theology student recommended to me.

[TPeers]

If you are going to read books like that no wonder you need some positive input! It's a bit on the heavy side for me, I like my life to be more light hearted.

This is a wonderful thread, I have always accepted that there is a
god, but 'made in his image' does not mean sit back and pass the buck when things go wrong. If we are 'in his image' we have the power of creation, a knowledge of good and bad and the responsibility to choose our path in life and live with the consequenses of that choice.

I have a bible thumping MiL and a seriously agnostic OH (one wonders why ) but none of this can change the sheer wonder of watching a seed grow or a chick come out of its egg.

Despite, or perhaps because, the current view seem to push an excessive materiallistic attitude and a wasteful 'throw away' acceptance of consumerism I am becomming more and more convinced that some level of self sufficiency is a requirement for a contented soul. Be it salad crops in a window box, a couple of pots on a patio or a full blown allotment with hens and rabbits and maybe a goat, this connection that so many of you quote is a wonderful thing not easily duplicated.

There is something of the child in it, wonder in the old sense, awe as it was originally defined, a release of stress and tension, of stepping back from responsibility a slower, more comfortably paced style of living which is not available to many of us.

I'm going to stop there - so much for my vaunted 'easy' style. I never meant to preach.

[smallblueplanet]

....It's a bit on the heavy side for me, I like my life to be more light hearted......I have always accepted that there is a god....

And I've never liked being told what to believe, I like to read and decide for myself. Its fascinating though the sorts of things people do actually believe in.

[TPeers]

I'm sorry if I have offended you, I'm not trying to tell you what to belive, that is and always was your choice.

Terry

[smallblueplanet]

No offence taken - well only that the book was 'heavy', it is an easy read yet totally fascinating, if the 'origins' of certain religious views interest you that is. LOL!

[SueA]

Hey SBP, why not put a review on there for the book, it has a section for customer reviews & says be the first person to review this book?

[smallblueplanet]

I've thought about it before with Amazon, but I'm not happy with the fact that what I write isn't always what I mean.....some folk have a way with words.

[Snadger]

"The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, Mephistopheles ..............

Couch grass?

[madderbat]

Couch grass?

LOL - but at least the roots of couch grass are edible (according to Mrs Leyel, Herbal Delights, Grammercy Publishing Co, NY. 1938 pp46-47) and the middle bits of stems taste ok too.