Beliefs and stuff

[pigletwillie]

I think you will find Johnty that a majority of people hold religious views. Unfortunately out of that majority a minority's views cause huge problems primarily as they feast of the position and power that they gain.

I am a Christian and believe in the main crux of Christianity, that Jesus died to absolve us of sin. However I hold no great faith in the fabric of Churches or the strict rigidness of organised services. Fellowship is of more importance to me as that is what Jesus preached before there were churches or vicars. A persons religion is a very personal thing and is something that evolves and often has to be worked at, its not always easy and it is the challenge of faith that makes many people wander off to practice things that do not challenge their concience or lifestyle. A faith that doesent challenge you is a false friend as it will give you no joy. We all have moments where we are in awe, just like yours on the top of Helvelyn where we see in full colour the beauty of the world about us. The appreciation of these moments is what makes us human and are perhaps not religious or spiritual in nature, just breathtaking in putting us into perspective in relation to our surroundings.

I am no luddite, I believe in Darwins findings and find no contradiction to whats in the bible, the world has had billions of years to move on and it still does.

What is the point of life if there is no challenge, life would be pointless. Thankfully, God gave us freewill.

[Alice]

SPB, you have my apology, I called you earthbabe. Only excuse - too late on a Sunday night.

[johnty greentoes]

I think you will find Johnty that a majority of people hold religious views. Unfortunately out of that majority a minority's views cause huge problems primarily as they feast of the position and power that they gain.

I am a Christian and believe in the main crux of Christianity, that Jesus died to absolve us of sin. However I hold no great faith in the fabric of Churches or the strict rigidness of organised services. Fellowship is of more importance to me as that is what Jesus preached before there were churches or vicars. A persons religion is a very personal thing and is something that evolves and often has to be worked at, its not always easy and it is the challenge of faith that makes many people wander off to practice things that do not challenge their concience or lifestyle. A faith that doesent challenge you is a false friend as it will give you joy. We all have moments where we are in awe, just like yours on the top of Helvelyn where we see in full colour the beauty of the world about us. The appreciation of these moments is what makes us human and are perhaps not religious or spiritual in nature, just breathtaking in putting us into perspective in relation to our surroundings.

I am no luddite, I believe in Darwins findings and find no contradiction to whats in the bible, the world has had billions of years to move on and it still does.

What is the point of life if there is no challenge, life would be pointless. Thankfully, God gave us freewill.

I understand and agree with what you've said PW - I'm sure half the problem in talking about these things is that one man's spirituality is another man's religion and it's the words that get in the way.

[johnty greentoes]

Sorry SBP - I got your name mixed up as well.

[nick the grief]

Whilst I'm still in my Shakespear frame of mind this quote from Hamlet goes a long way

This above all: to thine ownself be true.
(1.3.82), Polonius

[Earthbabe]

SBP, I'm glad they finally sorted out who you are. I've been out all evening and then watched a mix of Cold Mountain and I, Robot. Ho Hum!

I have pondered asking this sort of question and have found that many are willing to discuss their beliefs openly in all manner of threads. I will ponder on mine in order to answer with clarity, although those who have followed some of the threads will have a good idea where I stand.

[valmarg]

NTG, you have taken one short line out of my favourite Shakespearian quotation:-

"Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not expressed in fancy; rich not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man ............
Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all, - to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

The modern translation of the 'costly thy habit as the purse can buy'' is 'cut your cloth according to your means'.

NTG the lines you missed were:-

And it must follow, as the night the day.
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Four hundred years later, and Shakespeare is sill the king of English Literature

valmarg

[zebedee]

I too am a believer, but I won't bring up religious views here, but it is true that when you are working on the allotment or your garden, you ARE tuned to nature and bound by the seasons, and this gives you time to think, ponder, peruse. After all, how does that poem go? 'what life this, if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare!'
I am not 'new age' or 'hippie' or any other labelled group. I just love being with my veggies, feeling the stress drain into the soil. There are lots of interesting birds about, (no not that sort, the feathered variety!), interesting helpful characters. Also there are quite a few youngsters taking up the dirty work, and well done I say!
Just go for it, relax, enjoy, get dirty, cold, wet, whatever. This is good!

[muckdiva]

My mum is a lapsed catholic and managed to put the whole family off any sort of organised religion, but I am a believer in my own way, and when you see the miracle of growth and renewal in the garden - and nature in general -how can you fail to get a bit of spirituality.

I thought some of the words of the poem posted by Sewer Rat on Supersprout's thread say it all:

......I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunllight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awake in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night....

[Marylou]

Smallblueplanet: Thankyou for starting this thread. Alice, Piglet, Zebedee and others- many thanks for putting into words and into perspective what I am sure we all feel from time to time, but which in my own case, not really acknowledged or been able to express adequately. Maybe we have become too sophisticated and arrogant to accept what might be our true place in the order of things, and instead aspire to be in control of everything. Plenty for me to ponder here .

[zebedee]

To all concerned on this thread, further to my comments earlier. It is a quote from many years ago, and to be honest I can't remember who made it. I think it was either Mark Twain or James Thurber, but please don't quote me on it. It goes:
"Sometimes I sits and I thinks! Sometimetimes I just sits!"

That somehow sums it up for me when I am gardening!

[zebedee]

Marylou. Everybody has a place in the scheme of things, and no-one has the moral right to disturb this. Control what you manage, manage what you control. Be prepared to hug your friends, don't be scared to tell people you love them. It takes 42 facial muscles to frown, and 13 to smile, be lazy, smile a lot.

My only religious comment: Jesus said "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you!" or, in plainer English, what you want people to do for you, do for them. Trust me, this works.

Again, enjoy the dirt and the produce.

[smallblueplanet]

...I can honestly say that I find my garden and allotment a place of connection - a connection with the real and natural rhythm of things, a connection with the overwhelming harmony of life/death, growth/decay.....

This I guess for me is the crux of the matter.

As for organised religions the only one I have knowledge of that I felt any sympathy with is the Quakers. But I think on the whole I'm not looking for a set of religious proscriptions, I'm looking for a way of living life - some harmony, both without and within.

[Birdie Wife]

Time for me to pin my colours to the mast too. I am also a Christian and subscribe to every last word pigletwillie wrote. I think we were all born with a 'spark of the Divine' in us, and we find it in different ways, and at different times. I am also a scientist and the two things are not mutually exclusive, but there are extremes of opinon in both directions. Every person is born different and the world is better off for it.

[deb of the wych]

do I believe in a higher entity Yes
do I believe everybody has the right to worship the higher entity anyway they wish as long as It dosn't hurt others Yes
I was also brought up to the notion 'you reap what you sow' and 'smile and the world smiles with you'.