The Liberal Democrats. Pfft!

[buzzingtalk]

The con-dem government will ruin healthcare and the NHS by the way, I work in mental health and if their proposals go forward (which they will) then the future of healthcare while these idiots are in power will be in jepardy.

Of course! To save money, lets cut mental health funding in some areas by a drastic amount, and release patients back into the community with no money to give appropriate support! Not forgetting that many of these patients would not have even been considered for community integration due to complex problems, but instead will be forced out of safe hospitals and into the 'wild' of the community - for which they are not yet equiped to live in.

Disguisting.

This country will go to **** like it did when thatcher was in, its the 'greed is good' philoophy that got 'us' into this situation - and with 'us', i mean those that fell for it. But now 'we're all in it together', well thats ironic becuase my family don't remember being involved in the build up to all of this crap so I don't see why we have to bail people out of it at the cost of losing important and frontline services that made this country great in the first place.

[PAULW]

Labour have their faults too but did well to keep the economy going through the last few years, plus they have the majority's interests at heart - unlike the tories.

There was a note left in the treasury when new liebour left office saying "there is no money left" what interests at heart did they have for the country please explain, new liebour came to power with no idea what they were going to do and in 13 years they still never had an idea.

[Madasafish]

Anyone thinking that spending money we don't possess and borrowing money to pay the interest on the money we have borrowed is a good thing has got to admire the last Government.

Anyone thinking borrowing money to pay civil servants salaries higher than private industry (fact), pensions better than private industry (fact), many on benefits more than the minimum wage would bring and in some cases several times more (fact) and leaving our children to pick up the pieces has got to admire the last Government.

AND anyone thinking fighhting wars - one of the basis of lies told to Parliament and the Country - 45 minutes for our troops to be hit by WMD - has got to admire the last Government.

Anyone believing that governing by stealing money from expenses and lying and spinning is the right way to communicate has got to admire the last Government.


Anyone believing that bankers know best and should be lightly regulated and the economy is such that boom and bust have been abolished has got to admire the last Government for leaving the economy in such a good position for the incoming Coalition.

Anyone who thinks it is good to delay difficult decisions on defence strategy and spend £ billions we cannot afford on weapons systems we do not need has to admire the last Government for its policies.

And anyone who believes we can keep spending money as the last Government did - should try living on a budget...

[zazen999]

By all means debate on politics - but if this starts getting personal it will be pulled....just saying [going on past experience on politics threads]....

Anyone thinking they can make blanket statements about what anyone who supports something is or should be - will have their posts removed

[Pies]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

William Pitt the Elder

[lindyloo]

i think that labour got thier spending wrong in some instances- ie too much 'show' ( all the fancy new buildings etc) and not enough substance, but thiers hearts were in the right place, and they tried to improve some of the problems of lower income and lack of housing. i do not believe that spin and dishonesty was any more apparent in thier party , than in the others. as a matter of fact, i think that thier bigest mistake, was in embracing too many tory policies, and forgetting thier traditional role of representing the working person/ family.

the lib/dems and conservatives will bring this country back to edwardian or victorian times when the upper classes or people of wealth, ruled with an iron fist, and ordinary decent honest people suffered appalling hardship. even in those times there were private funded philanthropisits and clear thinking people who set up projects of building to provide work for desperate workers, which is more than it appears that the new gov. is going to do.

i am afraid that there is going to be such a divide between poverty and privelege now, and i am also concerned that peoples basic rights are going to be corroded.

i have yet to hear what the deprivations are that theses wealthy polititians are inflicting on themselves and thier own families?? but then, i am not surprised- how can these priveledged sons of wealth possibly know what it is like to start out poor, without the props of a stable family, and a private education, followed by the right clubs and marriage. i also, do note that the projects that are going ahead, are geared towards the businessmen and commuters, and i feel that that is indictive of where the proirities lie- its not with the ordinary working family, thats for sure.

i am disgusted that affordable housing is basically scrapped, and welfare payments lowered, when what was needed was housing that people could afford, on thier wages, and still afford to feed and clothe thier family. yes, weed out the people who take advantage, but the first step is to take away the need for people to have to take advantage- that is the starting point. instead, this gov. is going to finish the disasterious plans that maggie t. set in motion.

something which many people have forgotten, is the mess that labour inherited from her policies.!!!

one of her policies was to sell of council housing, with no more being built. i also want to say that i think it is a valid point that when talking about the cost of welfare to certain individuals, the main amount of money seems to be going on thier rent-- so it is not going into thier pocket, but into a private landlords- so who is really benifitting from it??? i am not beating on private landlords here. if there is a gap in the market, someone will fill it, and it was a win win situation for banks, mortgage lenders and people buying to let - (i wish i was one, in truth). all i am saying is that it seems the very first step to lower the welfare bill is to supply cheap housing, followed by limiting the size of families, and job creation, at a realistic wage. then a lot of the problems will start to reduce in a productive way. the gov. should be starting up building projects to create jobs, not stopping them.

so, i really do hope that the british public does not just sit still and accept all of the proposed measures, without protest- as a child of the sixties and seventies, it just seems a basic right to me to take action and strike, if that is what is called for, but somewhere along the way, it seems that ordinary people have lost the urge, or just the energy, to stick up for themselves and those even worse off from them. and the very big fear, is that the same old conservative policies are going to bully the lower orders, back into submission.

sorry about going on- i just feel so passionate that we only hear from those who are in a position to shout loudest, while a huge section of the population is too downtrodden or lacking in skills, positon, or confidence to stand up for themselves. i think it is summed up by the fact that people have given up and feel powerless

[Madasafish]

<i>one of her policies was to sell of council housing, with no more being built</i>

"By 2010 we will ensure that all social tenants benefit from a decent, warm home with modern facilities.” That’s what the Labour Party Manifesto said in 2005. So how many council houses do you think were built in 2005? Half a million? One hundred thousand? No. Two hundred and thirty nine! That’s 239 without any missing zeroes or decimal points. To be fair to New Labour that’s a big rise from the 192 council houses built in 2001/2.

These figures come from the government’s own publication Housing Statistics 2006. By contrast 1657 houses were constructed during John Major’s government in 1996. These numbers pale into insignificance compared with the 14,015 homes built by councils in 1990, or the 74,835 completed in 1980.##


"

Council housing or private equity - which does New Labour prefer?

## Mrs Thatcher was of course PM in 1980 and 1990.

[buzzingtalk]

There was a note left in the treasury when new liebour left office saying "there is no money left" what interests at heart did they have for the country please explain, new liebour came to power with no idea what they were going to do and in 13 years they still never had an idea.

And where did this taste for spending money come from?

Tories a la 1980's

Thatcher ruined this country, at least for the working classes she did anyway. I am neither a labour or tory supporter, they both have their faults - but I think labour should be given more credit for getting us through the last few years following 2 very difficult decades of relentless spending thanks to the tory party.

They have done wonders to keep the NHS going and made good improvements in education. They also stopped the recession turning into a depression. However going to war was their biggest mistakes and what turned me off them (I was only 11 when Blair was voted in 1997!). It does not replace the irreversable damage done by the tories in privatising during the 80s.

By the way I hope no one thinks this is an 'aggressive' post or I am trying to bait someone - I speak from my own, personal experience and not from what the media tells me and I am no way trying to infringe on someone else's beliefs - I just know that labour have people like me, i.e. the working class, in consideration much more than the conservatives.

[pigletwillie]

Labour have their faults too but did well to keep the economy going through the last few years, plus they have the majority's interests at heart - unlike the tories.

Thats why they borrowed one pound in every 4 they spent and left a defecit of over £150 billion this year alone which will cost us and our children £42 billion pounds a year to pay interest on let alone repay.

Please take off your rose tinted specs, Gordon destroyed the pension system, promised an end to boom and bust, introduced tuition fees and gave tax credits to those on up to £80k a year.

The coalition party would I am sure love to have a clean slate and not have to sort out the mess they have inherited, reducing our debt is in EVERYBODIES INTEREST, especially your CHILDRENS who no doubt will have to carry on paying for Labours financial fecklessness till they retire.

[PAULW]

Councils might have had a chance of building new houses if they didn't have to pay 70% of rental income to the government while housing associations are allowed to keep all the rent it draws in, affordable housing is IMO only affordable if you are in receipt of benifit, I worked with a bloke who was paying £200 a week for a two bed housing assosiation flat and his take home pay was £230 a week luckily his partner was working so could pay towards the rent and bills but there wasn't a lot of disposable income.

[buzzingtalk]

And with regards to council housing - its no wonder why labour struggled to build, with so many modern regulations and lack of space these days. It takes years to rid a government of old policies, even when an opposing party takes over. It will take the coalition years to get rid of labours misakes (the war) but I hope they are not in power to see that through.

Just after the coalition got in, and their policies were out, the front page of a newspaper read 'SPEND FOR BRITAIN' I'll be keeping my wallet close to my chest, and putting money aside in the hope that I can break the cycle of living in crap council houses that lots of my family do and maybe one day fight onto the housing market. But I don't think this is realistic anymore, with the tories in. Oh well, no pension, house, or other benefits that older generations are blessed to have

[pigletwillie]

And where did this taste for spending money come from?

Tories a la 1980's

They have done wonders to keep the NHS going and made good improvements in education. They also stopped the recession turning into a depression. However going to war was their biggest mistakes and what turned me off them (I was only 11 when Blair was voted in 1997!). It does not replace the irreversable damage done by the tories in privatising during the 80s.

.

Improvements in education, really, most universities have to spend the first year of a fresher bringing them up to the standard required to do the course they should be spending three years doing, education standards have fallen in real terms.

On health, our local A&E meets its targets, the ambulance service doesnt, this is because the ambulances wait outside with their patients so that everybody gets seen within the targeted time, however all the ambulances are full of people so cannot meet their targets, utter stupidness.

You were 11 when new labour came to power, the economy was good and we were at peace, I was 11 when Thatcher came to power and can still smell the uncollected rubbish, the rolling powercuts and being turned away from A&E but the unions despite having multiple fractures to my elbow.

[PAULW]

BUZZ
When the tories left office THIRTEEN YEARS AGO there was money in the pot there was a big pile of gold which Broon sold off at a car boot give away price, we had an industrial base, we produced a lot of our own food we now import 60% of our needs, under new liebour the economy was run on borrowed money the pleb owed the banks a trillion pounds Broon encouraged people to borrow "go on you know you want it put it on the plastic the interest rates are only a couple of per cent use it now pay later"

[buzzingtalk]

Thats why they borrowed one pound in every 4 they spent and left a defecit of over £150 billion this year alone which will cost us and our children £42 billion pounds a year to pay interest on let alone repay.

Please take off your rose tinted specs, Gordon destroyed the pension system, promised an end to boom and bust, introduced tuition fees and gave tax credits to those on up to £80k a year.

The coalition party would I am sure love to have a clean slate and not have to sort out the mess they have inherited, reducing our debt is in EVERYBODIES INTEREST, especially your CHILDRENS who no doubt will have to carry on paying for Labours financial fecklessness till they retire.

This debt began with the tories in the 80's though, and I'm sure labour would have loved to have had a clean slate and not have to sort out the mess they have inherited. My mum told me when I was young that I was going to spend my life in thatchers shadow, and that I do - the NHS is going down hill, affordble housing is a pipe dream and the economy and job market is weakening with every year. But this problem is rooted in thatchers policies and there is no denying it. The coalition government are faced with hte same problems that labour were after the tories last time - cleaning up a mess from the previous government.

[buzzingtalk]

well all i am going to say is people experience the world in different ways - i know that what ive seen has made me very distrustful of the tories. when i was young, there were no jobs and no prospects for lots of local people, and council housing was c**p, since labour got in council housing has improved and my own job prospects and education has got better. Whereas my mother, was at that age where the tories have damaged her for life, she is condemned to a life in a s**t tower block with no pension and no hope in hell of the situation improving unless a miracle happens. Thanks to thatcher

anyway i feel this is all getting a bit personal,just remember that everyone experiences things differently and that it is better to be true to your own experiences than what other people tell you, as its your life and no one elses.