Unemployment

[binley100]

There's no substitute for life skills they have to be gained through experience which is why it's so annoying that for just about every job whether it's nursing , journalism or high level technical work you have to have a university degree. This is a very sore point with me as my youngest wants to be a paramedic and there's no way we can afford to subsidise her through uni.
Luckily my eldest was one of the few who didn't have to do a degree first ( police officer) but I can foresee that changing in the future

[Two_Sheds]

Many 'young people' today want the instant wealth that they see so many young sports-players/pop stars etc with

You're right, but I also think parents have a lot to answer for too. How many kids these days are expected to get a paper round? They just are given everything on a plate, with no requirement to earn their allowances.

They don't even have to make their own way to clubs & schools etc, Mum/Dad's Taxi takes them wherever they want to go.

Of course you want the best for your children, but they should be brought up to be independent beings, able to function on their own

[jackie j]

Having children is a privilege. And with that, comes responsibility.

I agree I have always worked to help support my children albeit part time, The only time I claimed was when left with children to bring up on my own with no support from their dad, unless you count the £12.50 a week per child he had to pay in maintenence.

Single parents are not always single by choice, what about the one's who have lost a partner to war, yobs attacking them, serious illness all of which have taken far too many parents, my sister included. Should they have to find work as soon as their youngest is seven years old. Most people in these situations do find themselves with no choice but to find work, which usually means them having to pay more for childcare per hour then they can earn, we are not all able to have high flying well paid jobs.

My sister and brother in law are now bringing up my 15 yr old niece from 10 months after my middle sister died, they are both in their 60's not working, they get child benefit and other benefits that come with their circumstances, they do not however get any money from her dad, nor any fostering money, they struggle from week to week to get by, they really need a holiday but cant afford one, they dont smoke, drink or have expensive hobbies. They have chosen to bring her up because the thought of her going into care just doesnt come into it.
I lost my own dad when I was six years old leaving my mum to bring up three girls on her own, she didnt get any help and worked hard even though she was told by her doctor not to, resulting in her nearly being in a coma at the age of 52.
I have been brought up to believe that you work hard and get on with it, I didnt have my children for some one else to bring up and I salute those STAY AT HOME MUMS, and for putting them first and not the money.

[Madasafish]

We brought our children up so if they wanted extra things, they had to work for it...


I have read comments on websites where people refuse to consider work for whatever reason and say they are "entitled" to be on the dole.

Anyone who thinks like that will - I am afraid - never get anywhere until their mind set changes.


Like Caro10, I don't mind paying tax to provide essential services but paying people to live a lifestyle they could not afford if they were working is just designed to remove support for the welfare state from those who pay for it.

And for a welfare state to work, it needs the support of those who pay for it.

It is unfortunate that the spending excesses of the past 10 years have seriously undermined that support and made many people think the British education system prepares them for a job. Unless you are trained in a job such as engineering or the sciences, or maths, I have news for you: it does not.

Employers try to recruit based on ability and attitude... Many attitudes to work are such that only a desperate employer would employ them: one more interested in recruiting than results ( the last Government for example).

[Caro]

Jackie,

I can only offer my sympathies and admiration to your family for knuckling under during the tough times and getting on with it, for taking care of their own and doing what has to be done. I sincerely hope that your family has a smoother path and happy times from now on.

My gripe is with those who seem to think someone else should shoulder the responsibility, financial or practical.

But to move on - to Plot10 and OWG - have you read Utopia by Thomas More?

[Plot10]

I haven't but it just shows there's nothing new under the sun if something written half a millenium ago is still relevant.

[lindyloo]

i agree with you , plot 10.

may i say that i don't think we shouldnt be encouraging every student to think they are grad. material, but that shouldn't mean that their time is less valuable than the managment level. we should value everyone's input whether it is manual or managerial, but we dont, do we?

and if someone is dyslexic, it doesn't affect thier other skills ie they may not be able to spell consistently on an application form- but does that really inhibit them from being fantastic in a crisis, work well and digilently,be reliable, loyal have a caring approach, be able to create, or get to the nub of a problem quickly ?etc. etc.

if ordinary workers are undervalued in cash terms by thier employers, it doesn't say alot for thier respecting thier workforce as individuals.

and it is common sense, when taking on employment, to assess whether the pros and cons of getting to work, makes it worthwhile. it is sheer stupidity to spend , say £30 and 15 hours of your life each week, in order to do an undervalued job at minumum wage. far better to let a local person take that job, who might otherwise resent the fact that thier jobs ( at min. wage no doubt) are going to non- locals. it is a shame that the gov. wants to take away even a persons right to think for themselves by meddling. what on earth is the point in taking a problem and shifting it elsewhere. far more sensible to create jobs in the areas that need them, and where they will be appreciated. for instance, i think it has been a great idea that some councils have had schemes to build houses whilst training out of work people, who learn a trade as they take part.

schemes like those solve 2 problems at once, ( housing and work) and if the gov. set those up nation wide, it would be far more sensible than shuffling people around.

i too applaud stay at home mums and i also want to add that during my childhood, we didn't always have electric, or heat- we were dirt poor, so i am not excusing the small amount of people who do work the system, i am saying the system needs to be changed though- drasticly- not just by shuffling numbers, and creating new titles for old problems.

and i also want to say that my marriage broke up, because my husband left me no option than to leave him, not because i wanted it too end. i have not willy nilly went off to procreate with every john, dick, and harry, since then. i have done the best i could, in the situation, and that's what i truly believe most people do. it does not help the solve problems a seperated mother ( or father ) is coping with, to have it pushed down your throat that you are somehow a failure , not good enough, too lazy, stupid, undeserving etc. it just means that those of you who have had a smooth life are lucky that nothing has toppled your from your former position at the top end of the pile - but it could happen at any time, and then you might be thinking a little bit differently.

i used to walk 5 miles each way, to work in a grocery shop at one point when i had my first son- at minumum wage it is never worth the price of missing your child's childhood. and i agree that having children is a priveledge, but it is not just for the priveledged. you should be able to bring up a child without having to get wage top ups from the gov., and that is down to valueing employees- however menial the job might be. which is why the gov. needs to up the min. wage-- -- a bit like housing benefit helping the private landlords line thier pockets at tax payers expense, rather than the claiment, the min. wage allows the bosses and business men to get cheap labour courtesy of the tax payers too. so if business men don't like paying for other people's children- perhaps they should do some soul searching and pay a living wage, for a start- encouraging people to want to work for them- because you can't really pick and choose the recipient of your tax dollars, if you are contributing to the problem yourself.

[Two_Sheds]

housing benefit helping the private landlords line thier pockets at tax payers expense

This is why the housing benefit bill has doubled in recent years; because of the lack of affordable housing, people are having to rent in the private sector. Councils then have to pay HB to make up the rent.

I used to live in a housing co-op when I was at college (and needed less sleep). 6 to a flat, it was cheap rent but we had to do all repairs, accounts etc between us.
The building was purpose-built in the 80s to be energy-efficient & pleasant (everyone had a window and a balcony off their bedroom). Sadly the property boom & withdrawal of housing grants put such schemes out of reach: property simply became too expensive.

imo, we need more of these, so like-minded people can share housing in a co-operative spirit. Much better than blocks of single flats where everyone is shut away from their neighbours.

[OverWyreGrower]

and if someone is dyslexic, it doesn't affect thier other skills ie they may not be able to spell consistently on an application form- but does that really inhibit them from being fantastic in a crisis, work well and digilently,be reliable, loyal have a caring approach, be able to create, or get to the nub of a problem quickly ?etc. etc.

We did consider this when shortlisting, however, our online application facility has a spellcheck button on it, enabling an applicant to spell check their form and then go back and change things. The forms can be saved as many times as necessary for further inputting/changes.

However, when someone doesn't even use capital letters for any part of their entire application form (including their own name); can't spell the word 'university' (and it's on the top of every page of the form); and can't manage to write more than half a sentence when asked to explain something - it's very hard to take that kind of application seriously when there are 175 more to look at.

The person applying might well be fantastic in a crisis, loyal and reliable; but an application form is the first approach to getting a job; and if the shortlister struggles to read it because the grammar, spelling and punctuation is that bad; it's not a great advertisement for the applicant.

Part of the job is to produce documents (letters, reports, committee papers etc) to a high standard. If an applicant can't be bothered getting their own application right; you've got to wonder what their attitude to their work will be.

[murphy99]

It is all very easy to blame the “shirkers” and so called “cheats” of the system, the media and the government have us all believing that this is the norm within the benefits system and that the country would be so much better off if we rid ourselves of these people by getting rid of the benefits... well stop press these people will be here regardless, they are in all walks of life from the very poor up to the very rich. There has been and always will be the chancers and the fiddlers in this world. We are being blinded into blaming something that is NOT the real problem to make sure we do not see the big picture....

THERE ARE NO JOBS!!!

And NO the private sector will not suddenly magic up thousands of jobs , they are laying off too and have been ahead of the game in protecting their profits by “restructuring” way before the government!

My story... well I have worked all my life until last year when I was made redundant from my well paid job in the private sector... yes I can spell!. Yes, I have applied for hundreds of jobs, yes I am willing to travel... although do you expect me to divorce my husband and move to the other end of the country just for a job? Yes, I have thought about a career change...is there one that doesn’t have hundreds of skilled people already out of work?

I sign on every two weeks but am not on any benefits as we have savings which we are living off(these were for our well planned retirement!) Don’t get me wrong, I am not complaining about spending the savings but they will only last so long. How many people do you think are in similar situations to me who will slowly start hitting the benefits system as we lose our homes and livelihoods when our nest eggs run out? My husband works so we are not on the breadline, but this is the reality of what is really going on in this country.

It is NOT about the scroungers... get over them they will always be there. It is about ordinary people who deserve a decent standard of living, the right to work in a decent job for a decent days pay, the right to self respect no matter what life throws at you, the right to ENJOY life whatever that means to you!

As for the scroungers and cheats, well that is simple, if you know one REPORT THEM! Stop trying to punish the people who really do need the help and stop bringing shame and judgment to their situation!

[selfraising]

Hear hear Murphy99. Fully agree with you. Sadly there are cheats in society, always has been and always will be and imo many of them are the politicians who are trying to tell us how to run our lives.

[Two_Sheds]

We are being blinded into blaming something that is NOT the real problem to make sure we do not see the big picture....

THERE ARE NO JOBS!!!

Ain't that the truth. There are 2.5 million unemployed now. How are the disabled going to get jobs if these 2.5 million able-bodied people can't?

[lindyloo]

re OverWryeGrower- I do think standards have dropped, so I don't disagree with you- I like to present the other side, though. I feel I must apologise for my lack of capitals, crappy spelling and bad punctuation- it is because I am always posting in a hurry---en route to doing something else, and too lazy to go through and correct it all before hitting the post reply button. Also, I have this weird thing in my mind , that posting a message is like sending a telegram. Weird I know!

Whenever I have done a job application in the past, it has been corrected and presented immaculately, and you are right- it only takes a minute to go back and check everything; therefore it probably does say something about the applicant, especially nowadays when the computer probably does it all for the person filling it in anyway. I can't promise to mend my ways, but I will try to stop posting such long posts- I keep saying that I won't add any more to this sort of post, but then someone mentions something that connects with me, and I subject you all to more of my views, yet again.

just got to add, as it was mentioned; I have retrained a few times, and when I first split up I did do a return to work course. I have also trained and qualified as a reflexolgist, and an aromatherapist, and have some credits towards counselling ( not sure off- hand what they were the equivelent of but if I wanted to become a counselor, they would mean I already have the basic credits) I am part way through a hypnotherapist course. I worked as an animal healer, I have worked as a coordinator, with horses as a professional groom, for a sculptor, a dress designer, as a pattern cutter , in shops - both grocery and dress, in offices, in theatre, got sacked as a waitress- my only sacking. I worked once as a chambermaid in europe, I worked in a factory which made the beefeater uniforms and those type of things. I even once was desperate enough to work for an I ndian gentleman who brought a pile of garments to my house to be sewn for about 12p and hour- he got those back in a hurry, I can tell you- never again!! I have worked as a decorative painter, and once I even went door to door trying to cold call for double glazing.. I reckon I have shown willing to work and no skills have been wasted- use a lot of them in what I do now. But did I earn enough to live on- no not without being part of a family unit.

[Madasafish]

The price of housing is silly. Unfortunately it suited all involved- builders, lenders, landoweners, house owners and Government - to let prices keep rising and rising.

Now we are likley to see 5 years or more of slowly falling prices.. Except we are not building enough houses to meet demand... so the problem is likely to continue..

As for jobs, there are lots of employers complaining they cannot get skilled workers and want the Government to raise immigration caps and Rumanian children get jobs on farms..

Go figure..

As far as local jobs.. well I've always believed in going where the work is . If it meant moving home I did.. That's what has happened for the past 2,000 years or so...Communities die as the work disappears and people move to where there is work.. See the Cornish tin mines as an example...or Bankers in London...or the cotton trade...

[Two_Sheds]

As far as local jobs.. well I've always believed in going where the work is . If it meant moving home I did

That's fine if you can. I did it when I was young & single, but what if you have a partner? Do they have to give up their job to suit yours? What about dependents? (elderly parents spring to mind).

Communities die as the work disappears and people move to where there is work.. See the Cornish tin mines as an example

Er, but there are still people in Cornwall (admittedly, mostly weekending Londoners)