Unemployment

[di]

It is a choice to have children...but as Sarah said,we'd be having big problems in forty years time if only those that were earning enough without any top ups made that choice.
I agree with you though that it's disgusting and should change that single and childless people so often get forgotten.....but that's not to say that people bringing up a family should go without also just to make it fair.

[Two_Sheds]

Its also not fair that some men sod off leaving women to bring up children without paying a penny either. And believe me the CSA can be next to useless ... as usual it seems the most vulnerable in society are taking the brunt of those cuts.

Fi, I know where you're coming from: my own father never paid my mum nor me a penny.

Hopefully those vulnerable groups won't be turning on each other, while the Philip Greens, Lewis Hamiltons etc get away with paying no tax at all

we'd be having big problems in forty years time if only those that were earning enough ...made that choice.[to have children].

I think what I'm getting at is there isn't enough money to go round, so someone has to lose out. The rich won't pay more tax, so the poor have to lose money. Which groups are the most deserving of the state handouts?

If children are a right, do the feckless & reckless deserve the same choice? ie to have as many children as they like because the state will pay?

Di, I'm not disagreeing with you friend, I'm just thinking out loud here: there are already 2.5 million people without work. How are these extra babies to find work in the future?

And isn't it shocking that many, many people in this country cannot earn enough salary to support themselves and their families?

[Jeanied]

Hopefully those vulnerable groups won't be turning on each other, while the Philip Greens, Lewis Hamiltons etc get away with paying no tax at all

I think what I'm getting at is there isn't enough money to go round, so someone has to lose out. The rich won't pay more tax, so the poor have to lose money. Which groups are the most deserving of the state handouts?

And isn't it shocking that many, many people in this country cannot earn enough salary to support themselves and their families?

This is what I was thinking. Goldman Sachs have £8 billion in their bonus fund this year. And if the treasury finds a way of taxing the banks on the bonuses they pay, they are softening the blow by reducing their corporation tax liability. Either way the real culprits for our troubles will not pay - it is the rest of us.

Just found this quote from Gordon Gekko! It sums up how amoral big business is...
'Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A.'

[lindyloo]

i think my comment 3 posts down on this thread was misunderstood by a couple of you-- i am definately on the guide of the poorer amongst us. i genuinely wondered if anyone had any idea as to how to solve the problem, as the government don't appear to!

i for one , would like to see how any rich person could live well on what they say you need to live on (65.00 roughly, i think) if they were in a private rental, and therefor having to claim a housing benefit. i know someone in this situation, and for every £1 she earns over that amount, 87p is taken towards rent and council tax. therefore, she has to work approximately 7 hours to be £1 better off. so if she worked an EXTRA 40 hours per week, she would be less than £5 better off at the end of it. this is no doubt what people mean when they say they are trapped in the system. it is no wonder people lose hope. and the scary thing is , there will be a lot more in that situation soon.

[PAULW]

Tom Jones Englebert Humperdink plus other people where driven abroad in the 60s when the wilson government were taxing them at 98% the politics of envy did nothing to put money into the countries coffers, How many people does Phillip Green employ, how much tax and NI do they pay into the pot, how much VAT and business rates is payed by his company, now compare this to what the "five a day co-ordinator" "outreach worker" and all the non jobs in local councils produce, what is needed is people who produce thing to sell who in turn as they grow bigger employ other people,
Local council the last refuge of the unemployable.

[FionaH]

i think my comment 3 posts down on this thread was misunderstood by a couple of you-- i am definately on the guide of the poorer amongst us. i genuinely wondered if anyone had any idea as to how to solve the problem, as the government don't appear to!

To be honest I haven't got a clue! One of the reasons I have stayed clear of this debate until now

[Jeanied]

Gee thanks Paulw - I didn't realise teachers were still the lowest of the low!

[zazen999]

Local council the last refuge of the unemployable.

Do you tell your bin men this to their faces?

[pjh75]

Local council the last refuge of the unemployable.

What do you mean?

[FionaH]

ooooh is this gonna turn into a big fight? 'Cos I am ever so bored and housebound right now......................

[Cosmo and Dibs]

If he does, then you should immediately appeal. I don't have the figures to hand, but "most" appeals are won

Which goes to show what a waste of time & money these assessments are...

These IB/DLA re-assessments are a disgrace.

The govt are saying that they will be done by a health professional, but aren't they already done by health professionals? Of course they are! It is just a method of getting people off the benefits.

I really can't believe that we have a Tory govt. I can't believe they have been given another chance, but if one good thing can come from this current mob's behaviour is that they will without doubt become as unpopular as they have ever been and lose the next few elections.

[PAULW]

What do you mean?

From my experiance most of the people in council offices would not be able to hold a job in the private sector,
I never mentioned teachers but reading reports of lack of reading and writing skills of the school leavers it seems to me a good many of the inifective teachers need culling,
no need to worry about the binmen down here the local council has seen fit to make everybody equall the office whallahs have now had their wages upgraded to the same as the men on the bins therefore it must be fair if there is ever a shortage of binmen for the council to send out the office staff to cover the rounds if and when needed.

[Cosmo and Dibs]

Oh yeah, and Vince Cable has turned from the most respected politician in politics into the new Norman Tebbit.

Vince: Get on your bike!

[zazen999]

From my experiance most of the people in council offices would not be able to hold a job in the private sector,
I never mentioned teachers but reading reports of lack of reading and writing skills of the school leavers it seems to me a good many of the inifective teachers need culling,
no need to worry about the binmen down here the local council has seen fit to make everybody equall the office whallahs have now had their wages upgraded to the same as the men on the bins therefore it must be fair if there is ever a shortage of binmen for the council to send out the office staff to cover the rounds if and when needed.

I love it when people dis reading and writing skills with bad grammar and spelling.

[Jax]

These IB/DLA re-assessments are a disgrace.

The govt are saying that they will be done by a health professional, but aren't they already done by health professionals? Of course they are! It is just a method of getting people off the benefits.

I really can't believe that we have a Tory govt. I can't believe they have been given another chance, but if one good thing can come from this current mob's behaviour is that they will without doubt become as unpopular as they have ever been and lose the next few elections.

I couldnt agree more, they are ridiculous and a waste of time!! I have just had to redo OH's DLA forms and they are stupid forms. Even then they are giving a quote of 12-24 weeks. Not that they can make an informed decision from the stupid questions they ask anyway!! They do have a team of so called health proffesionals but they dont always put the forms through them. They have a team of decision makers that have a checklist and if you fit them then you get a yes. Working tax credits are stoopid aswell. Dont even get me started (oops I already have) the system is ridiculous and there is no help to get back into work, not that there are any jobs even if they did help.