Unemployment

[SarzWix]

They are doing the best for their kids,

Not if they smoke they're not.

Que?

How does that follow please? Not that I want to fall out with you chuck, but as someone who is yet again attempting to quit, I'd like to know how that means I'm not doing the best for my kids? If you're talking about costs, well it costs less than 2 pints of beer a week. If you're talking about health, then smoking outside doesn't have any effect on their health.
It's not ideal, which is why I'm trying to quit again - I'd like to still be here for my grandchildren. But then, in my opinion, alcohol is just as damaging, and more damaging when it comes to relationships, ability to concentrate, etc. Smoking isn't a depressant....

[HeyWayne]

Why are you trying to quit?

[Jeanied]

It's not easy being a smoker these days! It is like having a social disease.
In fact it is almost as frowned upon as being unemployed and on benefits.

How and when did we get to be so censorious?

[lindyloo]

i agree with two sheds on this; it is human nature to make the best of the situation you ( anyone ) are in. it is wrong to encourage nieghbor to be envious of nieghbor, or to judge what they should be spending thier money on. the very vast majority of people are honest and doing the best they can, and my personal theory is that those in power, and the media as a whole, are encouraging every one to turn on a group of people, so that we don't look to closely at those 'at top' and waht they are doing, earning, and spending.

i actually dont even think it is realistic to say that if someone is on benefit , they should have none of the modern neccesities- they need to live in the modern world too, ie mobilephone, computer, car, if they can manage to run it. all of that increases there chance in the job market. and i personally could not care less how anyone i know is fixed financially- i judge people on whether they are pleasant, kind to thier children, animals, and nieghbors, and i dont question what else they do-- it is up to them and thier conscience.

the problem is not too generous benefit- it is too low a wage, and lack of housing, and to judge anyone who finds themselves in a lower social position is wrong. i am always in mind of that old saying ' a house divided can not stand' so it is wrong for those in a strong position, to encourage those in a lower position to rat on each other through envy. how can anyone envy someone who is jobless- which always brings with it lack of pride and loss of personal power, and a whole lot of money. if people have a decent house that they can afford to live in , and a job that allows them to support themselves, they then become proud of thier personal kingdom. it is the first step towards respecting themselves, and respecting others.

and one more thing- i would hazard a guess, being very interested in social history through the ages, that a great many of the morally superior, and financially safe families and individuals who enjoy the top end of power and stability in this country, would only have to scrape back a few generations, to find that not every bit of good fortune and hard work, was got from honest means, it nearly always involved ruthless dealings and exploitiation of the poorer working labouring class.


and i also think it worth mentioning that nearly everyone trys to get the best out of thier income tax, and enjoys the perks of work. probably most people have at one time or another, taken cash for helping someone out (thanks for helping- buy yourself a drink mate) or ('i dont want paying- just give me the petrol money then') it is always a bit more than the petrol money! even helping yourself to a pen or some paper, or surfing the web, on an employees time, is actually not strictly honest-just remember, if you were claiming any benefit- that would be classsed as cheating, so we shouldn't judge.

also, i am self-employed, but i earn less than 9-10 thou. per year. up to this point, i have just about managed, and run a car, have a computer, i have lovely clothes,and a few very nice pieces of furniture. but, i don't eat out, i don't smoke, or drink any alchohol,i have never, ever bought new clothing, furniture, or appliances ( appliances are ussually given to me, when people upgrade to the latest model) . for thirty years i have bought and put pieces together which have cost me pennies, so i can vouch that you can look fairly well off, but be totally poor ( fur coat, no knickers- it used to be called)

why should i assume that someone who chooses to buy items such as flat screen t.v, mobile phones, flashed up ford escorts, is cheating the system??? they have simply chosen to buy items that i don't rate at all, and are probably in debt to the max, or making payments to 'bright house'- that is thier choice, and frankly i am not that interested in how they manage to pay for it. if they are pleasant, and not murderers or pervs. it is live and let live, as far as i am concerned. the peole i know who are claiming benefits are nice caring people, who are trying to keep thier childrens life as stable as possible, and live as best they can in thier circumstances, and what really, is wrong with that. because the jobs aren't there.

in a way, i think they earn the benefits by being the scapegoat for every thing wrong in society at the moment.. i just wish the verbal well off would remember that the bricks at the bottom are holding up every thing above, maybe not by thier labour, but if you start chipping away at the bottom layer, eventually the weakness created will topple the top levels. if there wernt people at the bottom, no one else could feel superior, righteous, or judgemental . it is natural balance that if you have the 'haves', you have to have the' have-nots'.

[HeyWayne]

It's not easy being a smoker these days! It is like having a social disease.

You do. It's called a-Pong.

[lindyloo]

not judging, as i used to be a social smoker myself, but, by the way - on smoking- if anyone is going outside to smoke away from the kids- could they please move away from the nieghbors windows? my new nieghbors go outside to smoke, along with thier visitors, so ussually about 8-10 people in all, and it all wafts in to our house, so all summer long we had to close our windows. horrid.

[SarzWix]

**applauds lindyloo's speech**

HW, why I am giving up, frankly, has f-all to do with this debate. I'd like to know how people who smoke aren't doing the best for their children? This statement applies to at least 2 people on this thread, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see the colour of your argument


I'm still reeling a bit at the announcement that Rooney's wage is going up from £90,000 to £180,000 A WEEK!!! This is where the ideology is completely wrong. WHY does anybody need to be paid that much money!! In my world, there would be a cap on anyone earning more than 10 times what the people at the bottom are allowed to earn. That would soon see a rise in the minimum wage...

[HeyWayne]

HW, why I am giving up, frankly, has f-all to do with this debate. I'd like to know how people who smoke aren't doing the best for their children? This statement applies to at least 2 people on this thread, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see the colour of your argument

OK. You win.

[zazen999]

[Cosmo and Dibs]

SO! Our wonderful? new all singing all dancing new government are saying there are jobs out there(Where?)
It's getting someone to take you on that's the problem.
Even then they want the sun, the moon, your body and soul for a pittance(national minimum wage)and if you don't try to get one of these "jobs" or turn one down you loose your benefit.

Exactly!

Even an advert for a job doing some unskilled job like working in a shop or data entry (etc) says you need 3-5 years experience.......all this for the reward of minimum wage!

Of course, minimum wage pays more than JSA, but even so.

Minimum wage, maximum effort!

[FionaH]

OK. You win.

Good. Don't make me come round there and gnaw your ankles

[chris]

<snip>I'd like to know how people who smoke aren't doing the best for their children? This statement applies to at least 2 people on this thread, so I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see the colour of your argument </snip>

Well, smoking outside and then coming in afterwards - you'd (as in the general you here) still smell of smoke and give off a bit of smoke I guess?

I certainly don't like it when people in the same building as me get in the lift with me after just coming in from a smoking break. I try to hold my breath in a pointless attempt to not breath it in.. I presume that's what HW may have meant by the a-Pong comment?

For the way I'd fix the country? Most of it would be too drastic to mention here

[Caro]

SO! Our wonderful? new all singing all dancing new government are saying there are jobs out there(Where?)
It's getting someone to take you on that's the problem.
Even then they want the sun, the moon, your body and soul for a pittance(national minimum wage)and if you don't try to get one of these "jobs" or turn one down you loose your benefit.

So are you saying then that people should have the right to turn down jobs - if the job pays national minimum wage - and still expect to be paid benefits? Just wanted to clarify what you meant.

[Jeanied]

I can feel this discussion inching towards a modern day workhouse...

[selfraising]

Good. Don't make me come round there and gnaw your ankles

She's got a fair set of gnashers on her HW so I'd watch out