Employment Law Scotland - Help needed

[tiachica]

Right,
maybe somebody here knows the answer to a big concern we have just now.

Hubby is currently 4 months into his 6 months probationary. For the past few weeks there hasn't been a lot of work, but he's always been told by the managers that this will change and to just wait. He's constantly asking what can he do, but is given very small tasks.

Anyway, yesterday he was told by his line manager, that his servicees will no longer be needed at the company, as he's not delivering the performance they are expecting.
They will have a chat today. I have asked him to take a witness and insist on the meeting being minuted or recorded.

We have just reread his contract and this is what it says:

"12. The first 6 months of your employment will be a probationary period during which time your performance and conduct will be monitored and appraised. At the end of that period, your employment will be reviewed and may be terminated, if you are found for any reason whatsoever to be incapable of carrying out, or otherwise unsuitable for, your job. The Company may extend your probationary period by written notice, but so that your total period of probation will not exceed 6 months."

Does that mean they can't fire him within the first 6 months of employment?

don't get me wrong, Hubby has been looking for work already in a different place, but so far has been unsuccessful. It's just we can't survive very long on one salary.

any thoughts anybody?

Thank you!

[Scottishnewbie]

it depends on what his job is. if it's a senior position (manager and above), then it's deemed reasonable for him to 'find' his own work. what is the job?

he should also speak to HR

[Croila]

Unfortunately, if you've got less than one year's service under your belt, you're not nearly as well protected by law as someone who's been there a year or more. And unfortunately the employer CAN terminate employment within that six month probationary period.

As a general rule, employees who have been there less than a year don't have the right to claim unfair dismissal but there are some exceptions known as "automatically unfair dismissal" reasons, like race, gender, religion, disability etc.

However, capability isn't an automatically unfair reason for dismissal, so that does leave him on a rather sticky wicket. Is there any way he can try to resolve this informally?

I'm sorry, this must be an awfully stressful situation for you both. I do hope the discussions he has today are positive?

[Incy]

Could he possibly ask to be made redundant rather than let go through incompetency. From what you have said his lack of productivity is due to a contract not coming through which he was employed to work on rather than him not being able to do the job he is employed to do. This to my mind would technically make his services redundant rather than him being incompetent. Unfortunately, as has already been said, if the company want to get rid of him they can but redundancy is a far better reason for dismissal than incompetence.

[tiachica]

He works as an engineer.

They have definitely said that he is being let go because he's not delivering what they ask for.
I realize this is difficult, because it's not first hand information you are reading.

Please keep your fingers crossed that we quickly find another position.

[zazen999]

They can get rid of him at any time in the first year without any reason; and in any way they want to.

If they do it because of discrimination then he could take them to a tribunal [which isn't the case here]

If they do it and don't follow the procedure then he could also take them to a tribunal [which again, doesn't sound like the case here].

Has he asked exactly what was it he was supposed to be delivering that he hasn't? Not that it makes any difference, but he might come out of it better equipped for another role.

[tiachica]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for reading this and adding your thoughts.

What happened on Thursday was that his line manager took him into his office and criticized his work, that he's not delivering 100% correct work, it's too slow, he's not integrating with the team and doesn't fit the company.
From my husband's side he's not been given any engineering tasks as such, but has been writing spec sheets for the last 3 weeks or so. Something that nobody in the company ever did before either.
Other work that he's been doing was very basic. In the scheduling team meetings, he has always been given very small tasks or tedious tasks, nothing that required an engineering degree.
As an engineer he's expensive to the company too and even more so to concentrate on admin tasks only.

He's been getting on fine with his colleagues.

He was supposed to have another discussion yesterday, but his manager didn't manage to set the time aside, so this will be done on Monday instead.
I asked him if HR were involved on Thursday or if the meeting was minuted, but neither was the case. So I have asked him to insist that they are involved on Monday.

This is such a bizarre situation.

[Glutton4...]

I would suggest that you both sit down this weekend, and write down any questions or points you would like addressed. When they make a statement saying he has been slow/late, or not up to standard, make sure he asks them specifically what items they are referring to. When they say he is not integrating, ask them what they mean, and who is he supposed to not be getting along with. Make sure he puts them on the spot. They probably won't have an answer.

It seems to me that they have now realized they don't need him, and they can't afford to do the decent thing, so they're nit-picking in an attempt to get him to walk, or so they can dismiss him without i costing them too much.

I hope it works out for you both.

[The Large One]

I would suggest that you both sit down this weekend, and write down any questions or points you would like addressed. When they make a statement saying he has been slow/late, or not up to standard, make sure he asks them specifically what items they are referring to. When they say he is not integrating, ask them what they mean, and who is he supposed to not be getting along with. Make sure he puts them on the spot. They probably won't have an answer.

It seems to me that they have now realized they don't need him, and they can't afford to do the decent thing, so they're nit-picking in an attempt to get him to walk, or so they can dismiss him without i costing them too much.

I hope it works out for you both.

i agree, sounds like a spineless lot to work for and as to "not putting time aside", that's disgraceful, when it's somebody's life your dealing with you make time as a manager to sort these things.
unfortunately they do sound like they are dragging hoping he'll walk...i'd do as said previous, demand a meeting and minuted and ask your questions, i'd be a preverbial pain to get rid of and hang on in there till the last minute but you really ought to find out what rights you really do have in this matter and exploit them

[zazen999]

you really ought to find out what rights you really do have in this matter and exploit them

He has no rights in the first year. As per my first post on here. Pending discrimination or not following the procedure - they can get rid at any time for any reason.

[tiachica]

Hi Zazen,
why in the first year? Because of probationary plus whatever it is they extend it to?

When re-reading the extract from the contract it says that the maximum length for the probationary time cannot be longer than 6 months. *shakes head*

[tiachica]

Sorry... just reread croila's message. ignore me.

[zazen999]

Hi Zazen,
why in the first year? Because of probationary plus whatever it is they extend it to?

When re-reading the extract from the contract it says that the maximum length for the probationary time cannot be longer than 6 months. *shakes head*

It's the law [they can write what they want in their contracts]

Dismissal

Even if he could claim that the employer terminated the contract without following the procedure, the chances of him being able to take it to tribunal are minimal.

[tiachica]

Thanks Zazen,...
I suppose it's not like he wants to claim for unfair dismissal, but more like see what his position is.

To be honest, he's trying as hard as he can to get out of this position, but we are hoping to bridge the gap between jobs, so that we don't have to live on one salary only for too long.

I really, really appreciate all your advice. Thank you!

[zazen999]

Thanks Zazen,...
I suppose it's not like he wants to claim for unfair dismissal, but more like see what his position is.

I understand, and believe me - I've been there....which is why I asked

Has he asked exactly what was it he was supposed to be delivering that he hasn't? Not that it makes any difference, but he might come out of it better equipped for another role.

If he can see himself to try and find out what the problem is before they actually get rid; he might stand a chance...or at least walk out with his head held high that he didn't actually do anything wrong.