Iain Duncan Smith

[SarzWix]

Having ideas and skills is all well and good, but if you can't use those skills and ideas without using people as labour, then those people labouring are obviously just as important as the people with skills and ideas. How revolutionary if everyone who kept a company running and profitable were paid the same? If the labour of the little people isn't that important, then lets see the companies operate without them?!!

The reason that the system remains the way it is is that the people at the top of the pile work hard to keep it that way.

[pigletwillie]

companies such as waitrose are workers co-operatives and all share in the profits. The bloke steering the ship still gets much more than a checkout person but then he is probably working twice the hours with lots more responsibility on his shoulders. The unions would never allow equal pay as with extra responsibility they would expect extra money and so up the tree it goes., call at all hours, meetings away from home and all the corporate responsibility that goes with it.

Less than 5% of people in this country earn more than £60k a year so stop blaming the bloody rich.

[PAULW]

Sarah
They tried that in Russia the farms that grew crops earned money made a profit became collectives where people were payed if they worked or not result famine.

[pigletwillie]

Having ideas and skills is all well and good, but if you can't use those skills and ideas without using people as labour, then those people labouring are obviously just as important as the people with skills and ideas. How revolutionary if everyone who kept a company running and profitable were paid the same? If the labour of the little people isn't that important, then lets see the companies operate without them?!!

The reason that the system remains the way it is is that the people at the top of the pile work hard to keep it that way.

if we all got paid the same, just where is the incentive to rise or better yourself, lots of people would just do the bare minimum leaving others to pick up the slack. Didnt the old Soviet empire try that one back in the fifites re collective farms, Production only recovered when the individual farmers got a piece of the action.

[lindyloo]

paulw; i am not saying it is always the fault of the rich or the toffs, and i am not saying that if you are rich or a toff, you are a heartless, uncaring person. in actual fact , some of my family and friends are toffs, and i get on fine with them, very well in fact. i have even (once) voted conservative when i was younger!!! (never again)

any comments i am making on this or similar threads is in relation to the topic as it stands now, or in relation to a differing opinion to mine, and my opinion on the current tories is to do with the comments they have made, about an entire segment of the population. i have always had a thing about standing up for the lost cause, or the weaker side, so maybe that's it.

i do not class all bosses or rich peole the same, i don't think they are all exploitive, but i will certainly bring up the proportion who are, when it comes to the comments or misconceptions towards the working class ( or the 'lack of' work-ing class) as a shiftless, feckless, unambitious group of people who can't motivate themselves?

yes it is the way of the world, as you say, but the problem is that there is too much of a gap between the top and the bottom, as regards monetary value and i am afraid that the common working man is sadly undervalued. if he wasn't half of the problems we are having now wouldn't exist.

and by the way, in my experience the selfmade millionare is ussually far less generous to thier workforce than the ones who were born to it. something about thier attitude is too hard ( if they make it they seem to look down on the ones who don't), whereby the real toffs, in day to day dealings with people, are out of touch with how poor people live, but have been brought up with the concept of 'noblesse oblidge' ( not sure of spelling) whereby, they take care of 'thier' people.

so my comments are really geared to the polititians and how they are presenting thier plans to us, and the lack of solution and reassurance that they should be offering to us. after all- we are in this together!! but some of us get £150, 000 per year, plus housing and expenses, and some of us have to live on 65£ (?) per week. and that is what i find unjust. well, that and the fact that the banks still get thier massive bonuses

[Cosmo and Dibs]

I'm from a working class background and have loads of ideas for my own business or for community projects but, unlike the rich(er) folk, I can't get them off the ground due to lack of funds.

We are not born equal.

[PAULW]

I'm from a working class background and have loads of ideas for my own business or for community projects but, unlike the rich(er) folk, I can't get them off the ground due to lack of funds.

We are not born equal.

The bloke who invented the clockwork radio started in his shed, there are many other people who have started from nothing that have made a fortune from their inventions.

[pigletwillie]

Social mobility is there, my family all grew up in a council house, we now all have responsible jobs, own our own homes and earn above average wages. Perhaps it was the embarassing poverty we endured as children that made us grab the opportunity of education and take every opportunity with both hands.

Please stop talking of "the poor" or "the working class" like homogenised commodities, to be pitied and looked down upon. Stop blaming those who had better opportunities or who earn more, most of them have worked hard for it. An NHS Consultant may earn £150k a year and fair play to them, they did the 90-100 hour weeks when training and continuously trained for many years to get there. Why should they be fingered by the jealous or the self righteous.

If you have been unemployed for so long that these rules affect you then perhaps a dose of responsibility to your self, your family and yes indeed taxpayers is long over due.

[lindyloo]

pigletwillie- if those comments are directed at me- i want to say that i do work- hard, so do all of my family. and my comment about 150,00 per year is relating to mps. i am not running down the entire upper end of the finnacial structure, i am responding to the original purpose of the thread which was ian d.-s., and any other comments that i make are in response to other peoples observations.

[pigletwillie]

They were not aimed at you LL, just in response to peoples observations and the original discussion.

[pigletwillie]

I'm from a working class background and have loads of ideas for my own business or for community projects but, unlike the rich(er) folk, I can't get them off the ground due to lack of funds.

We are not born equal.

Nor are they anywhere in the world, but its an individuals choice if they want to get all spiteful and resentful and victimised if they are at the smelly end of the stick.

[BUFFS]

iain duncan smith,parlimentory speek for "im dead stupid",his own department says his schemes wont work,but with them all trying to outmaggie thatcher,that wont stop him,the last goverment to make its first objective to attack the sick and disabled in such a barbaric way went on to gassing them,experimenting on them,starting a world war...they will do anything to avoid harming their directorships with that useless pack of bankers(for lack of a more apt name),the fine for all the banks to pay for the destruction of the british economy is less than one bank payed in bonuses,what a surprise...the very same brood that wanted to hand us over to hitler,without a fight ,as long as they kept their money,estates and titles...the result of 1000 years of inbreeding no doubt,now we have CLEGG,it now proves that his signature is not worh the paper its written on,no wonder cameron welcomed him with open arms,likes to keep money as his....C.L.E.G.G. stands for "cant let everyone get goodies", obviously want to keep it in the hands of a select few,who think they were born to rule, the french aristocracy thought that too did they not?...when it comes to any politition,of any party,it would always do to count your fingers if you shook hands with them, biggestn benefit (expenses) cheats in the country,the lunatics have literally taken over the asylum!!!!!!!!!!

[Snadger]

If for whatever reason, parents of families lose their benefit, and their are no jobs to be had,what are the kids and dependants supposed to live on?

Will this not encourage lawlessness?

I for one am committed to feeding my family and if I wasn't working or receiving benefits,I would , beg, borrow or steal to put bread on the table.

I am at present a law abiding citizen but I'm afraid I couldn't have any qualms with someone trying to feed their family!

[BUFFS]

im all for anyone who can work being helped into it,we have all seen the system beating wasters, i worked for 35 yrs without claiming anything,so it came as a shock to be told that i had to stop working,as it would speed up the decline in mobility,but the biggest shock was the way you are spoken to and dismissed,with these changes coming about,does that mean they will get more insolent and ruder than now? thats why i steer clear of them,as long as we can survive without their intrusions we will,they were supposed to come and assess what we needed in october....october 2006,still not turned up and im not saying anything,id rather go without..

[Two_Sheds]

If you have been unemployed for so long ... then perhaps a dose of responsibility to your self, your family and yes indeed taxpayers is long over due.

PW, are you or your company in a position to take on some of these long term unemployed?