Iain Duncan Smith

[Polly Fouracre]

[QUOTE=lindyloo;765714]does anyone know what other countries are doing to solve similar problems of society??

are they also bulldozing through peoples lives, without offering any practical solutions?

is anyone suggesting that the banking bigwigs pick up litter to start paying for thier unjustifyable bonuses?

I should bl***y well hope so. What's sauce for the goose etc!
If only most unemployed folk actually were trying to make a better world that would be lovely but, I see around me every day fit, healthy people who would rather live on handouts than find a job or even look for one. As I said, it is these people who would benefit from being made to do something.

[Patchninja]

For goodness sake, it's only 4 thirty hour weeks to keep getting the benefits. It's not full-time permanent "slave labour"!
Why use such emotive language?
How can this hurt anyone? Everyone who's against it is griping on about litter picking but someone's got to do it! I spent a part of last year working in a fish factory because it was all I could find at the time. I would rather have been out in the fresh air, let me assure you

[SarzWix]

How much did you get paid for working at the fish factory? Was it £2 an hour?

[murphy99]

I think until you have actually experienced what it means to be unemployed you cannot appreciate the devastation it can bring emotionally and physically regardles of how much money you have or don't have!

As I see it there are two different issues
1 ....loads of people unemployed, through no fault of their own, desperately trying to find work where there isn't any.
2....the scroungers of this world who will, whatever policies and procedures are put in place, always find a way to get a much as possible for as little as possible.

We are constantly being told through the media and government that the country is being brought to its knees because of the "scroungers and unemployed" .... using word association implying all people claiming benefits are scroungers. can't you see this is just a ploy for you to NOT see the big issue, the thousand and thousands of genuine people who cannot get work because THERE IS NO WORK!!!!!

Its a great ploy to get the country discussing the pros and cons of forcing the umemployed(scroungers?) to do voluntary work , regardless of whether the idea is viable or not , they are getting everyone into the mindset that unemployed means scrounger and that scroungers are the lowest form of society. I see it on lots of discussion forums them THEM and US mentality between people who have jobs and those that don't... until I was made redundant I was you! They are dividing the ordinary working people against themselves, you spend so much time watching what the unemployed(scroungers?) are getting to help them through their unfortunate situations you are missing what they are really doing to this country which in the long run effects us all working or not!

I wonder what policies they are actually implementing while everyone is getting worked up by something which in all honesty is a joke and won't solve anything in the greater scheme of things!

[Glutton4...]

I was unemployed for three & a half years & applied for at least one job a week including bin man / litter picker(I'm not proud ).
Being in my late 50s it was nice to even get a rejection letter.
The joke shop gave very little help in my search for work & even stopped my meagre benefit(for 6 weeks) for "not trying" hard enough.
On pension credits now & no pompous snotty little pip squeak of a dole office clerk asking me stupid questions(No signing on)

So, basically, you're just unemployable BW!

[SarzWix]

**Massive applause for murphy99**

Well said, well argued, well presented. That's it, in a nutshell.

[pigletwillie]

Piffle, the policy is aimed at the long term unemployed. Unemployment benefit is there as of right. However it should never be open ended. Having been made redundant more than once I know only too well the feeling and effect of being cast aside.
I pay plenty of tax and by doing so have a right to expect that it goes to where it is needed. With our benefits system costing £190 billion a year checks and balances are needed and if that means that those who do need it get it then thats fine by me.

[murphy99]

Long-term dole claimants thought to need "experience of the habits and routines of working life" could be put on month-long unpaid placements of 30 hours a week doing jobs such as clearing litter and gardening.

There is nothing in this policy about getting anyone back into paid work! They turn up and still get their benefits and after the month... ermmm what next? Any good scrounger will be able to get past this blip in their cushy life!

They aren't creating jobs or getting anyone off benefits

[murphy99]

Details of the plans will be revealed in the Welfare Reform White Paper expected in the coming week.

It will set out Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith's proposals for a universal credit to replace the range of benefits currently claimed by the jobless.

And while everyone is debating the pro's and cons of making "scroungers" do volunteer work for a month they will have missed the BIG changes taking away your "right" as you put it .

Unemployemnt benefit is there as of right. However it should never be open ended.

I don't see anyone debating "universal credit"!

[Pies]

So as an unemployed person what you would like is to be able to claim benefits whilst training,weather full time or part time

Ive no problem with that provided the course is agreed in advance with the relevant authorities. After all theres no point doing a training course when there is little chance of a job afterwards

If somebody is willing to learn to get of the dole we should help them as much as possible,those that think society owes them a living should IMHO learn that it doesn't,the money they spend doesn't grow on trees

[Patchninja]

How much did you get paid for working at the fish factory? Was it £2 an hour?

It isn't £2 an hour if you're unemployed for a year and you work 120 hours!!!

[Bramble_killer]

Why should unemployment benefit be a right? Many countries only allow you to draw unemployment if you have paid into the system.

I would support the plan IF (A VERY BIG IF) it was coupled with other help. the principle of the plan is to instill a sense of doing something, and making sure that you don't spiral downwards.

My entire career path is based on short term contracts, I am coming to the end of my 3-year contract (unemployment begins 31 March 2011) and I'm applying for future jobs, applying for job outside of my comfort zone (as so many on here put it, there aren't that many jobs!!) and preparing to start up some small home business plans if all else fails.

It's about having the right attitude towards work, you can't instill that if you've never worked your whole life and you grew up in a household where no one has worked.

[murphy99]

Actually I am starting a course .... funded by the EU

I am doing a post grad in management. The lectures have been structured into the 15 hrs allowed for 7 weeks and then the essays are done in my own time over 6 months.

IF I did get a job before my 7 weeks are done my expectation would be that any savvy employer would allow me to complete the lectures, even if I had to do them unpaid!

I am expecting this will add another string to my bow and make me more employable , just having it on my CV might improve my chance while I am still studying. Better than picking up leaves I think

[lindyloo]

in total agreement with murphy99- i have long thought the same. as long as ordinary people are turning against each other, we aren't looking at the ones up top, and what they are achieving. i personally wouldn't have a problem clearing leaves, and being outside all day- that isn't the point. the point is that they aren't doing anything to rectify a huge problem regarding wages and housing. they are pointing the finger at a huge group of people as the cause of all our problems, and thier solution, imo, will not work; as someone on here said, it's only for a month. and that is the crux of the matter, once that month is up, they will still claim the dole, the same economic climate with low wages and lack of cheap housing will still exist. no one will have learnt any new skills. the only thing that could happen, someone pointed out to me today, is that the reluctant workforce will probably slip on the leaves, sue, or claim disability allowance!

[Seahorse]

Its a great ploy to get the country discussing the pros and cons of forcing the umemployed(scroungers?) to do voluntary work , regardless of whether the idea is viable or not , they are getting everyone into the mindset that unemployed means scrounger and that scroungers are the lowest form of society. I see it on lots of discussion forums them THEM and US mentality between people who have jobs and those that don't... until I was made redundant I was you! They are dividing the ordinary working people against themselves, you spend so much time watching what the unemployed(scroungers?) are getting to help them through their unfortunate situations you are missing what they are really doing to this country which in the long run effects us all working or not!

I wonder what policies they are actually implementing while everyone is getting worked up by something which in all honesty is a joke and won't solve anything in the greater scheme of things!

Quite.

It's one of those 'crowd pleasing' policies, designed to distract us all from the real issues like our armed forces fighting (and dying in) dubious wars, big buisnesses creaming off ridiculous bonuses for fat cats, or the mess our higher education system has become.

I don't think anyone supports the notion that lazy eejits should be allowed to sit around all day but as amply illustrated above, getting a job isn't that easy and those people who are chronically disaffected aren't going to suddenly realise how silly they've been once they've done a couple of weeks litter picking.

Surely the real answer should be motivation, help with qualifications and offering something substantially better than a life on the dole!