Halal meat ?

[weekendwellies]

As chrismarks says, if I was in a position of having to kill the animal myself then I would do, and I would try to do it as humanely as I could in the given circumstances, but society being the way it is, I am not in the position of having to.

What I do think is that the meat ought to be labeled so that we can choose whether to buy the halal or not whatever our own particular preferences are and not just having it foisted onto us whether we like it or not.

[Hilary B]

I've slaughtered turkeys by breaking their necks with the aid of a broomstick. It works for geese too. On any larger scale than the 'local sales' level, this may well become impractical (we never had more than about 25 to do for Christmas sale).
That said, the rapid loss of blood renders an animal unconscious quickly, the original 'non-stunning' approach derives from when the only viable stunning method was what might be termed a 'blunt instrument', and any bungling of this caused much more suffering than a swipe with a really sharp knife.
In pre-refrigeration times, and in the climates where Islam and Judaism originated, the sign of a stressful death in any animal was meat that went off quickly, and therefore might be unhealthy to eat. It is hardly surprising that this was seen as evidence that God was not happy with how things were being done, so the religious rules developed accordingly.
The potential for stress in the pre-slaughter handling is probably a lot more significant than that involved in the few moments it may take for a beast to become unconscious.
In many UK slaughterhouses, the stunning method is electric shock, which may well be acceptable under religious laws, since it does not cause injury.
No-one seems to mention Kosher rules, which also forbid any previous injury before the throat is cut, and I have heard that for Kosher acceptability only meat from the front half of the animal is used, leaving the remainder (much of which is the more expensive cuts) to be sold on the open market.
The concerns of many are entirely genuine, but often those who first expressed such concern were acting out of religious prejudice, or ignorance of the facts, or both.

[beefy]

My eldest announced last night that she wants me to stop shopping at my usual supermarket! The reason being is that top uk supermarkets are selling halal meat without labeling it as such, and she objects to the halal methods of slaughter. Waitrose, M&S, Sainsburys, Tesco, Somerfield and Co-op sell it, also Dominos, Pizza Hut, KFC, Nandos, and Subway also use it without informing customers, Asda refused to comment.

After my initial irritation that I should have to change my shopping practices for one of her fads I began to see her point. I personally dont object to people buying halal if they want to or if they need to for religious reasons. I think the supermarkets should give us the option of buying halal or non halal, whichever is our preference and I do think that the supermarkets should have to label it as such, the same way they have to label everything for everything else they can possibly think of. We all have a right to know what we are buying.

Another reason to support your local butcher - who should be able to tell you how and where the animal was slaughtered.

[PAULW]

There was a discussion on tv about this a few months ago... they seemed to be focusing on larger animals where it took more than a couple of minutes for them to die the halal way.

I personally think that everyone has a right to know what they are eating so if something is halal it should say so.

As someone who has worked in a slaughterhouse I can tell you stunning an animal does just that stun it, it does not kill the animal death is caused by bleeding it, the heart needs to be still beating to pump the blood out of the animal, when it runs out of blood it dies.

[minskey]

I have the same thoughts as averyone else with regards to labeling; we should have the choice.

With regards to the slaughter of any creature I also think the rearing and day to day care, and I really must empisise the word 'care' is very important. Even so the animal has been reared to kill; this must be done with the utmost respect and in the most stressless way possible way.

This brings me to my last point; to me the difference with Hallal slaughter and 'normal' [for wan't of another word] is faith. I don't mean in connection of the slaughter its self but the faith of the person slaughtering the animal. What I am trying to say is that in a Hallal slaughterhouse the slaughtermen will be followers of Islam which forbids you to cause suffering or stress to the animal you are slaughtering, it even states that the knife used MUST be razor sharp for a quick, clean cut giving a quick death, they even say a blessing over each animal just before slaughter. This is very different to most other slaughterhouses I have been to who just employ any bod who will do the job; NO OFFENCE PAULW I am sure you are a qualified and compassionate slaughterman.

I know that Judaism does not allow you to eat the back end of creature, never thought what happens to all those prime cuts; they could be sold as Hallal, but I bet its more likely that supermarkets have sold them for years unlabled. as other people say support your local butcher; it does not work out more expensive as you find you don't waste the georgeous meat.

[rana]

I noticed in a local food outlet that Halal meat often remained unsold and destined for the 'mark down' shelf. I don't know why customers wouldn't buy it but I can understand a retailer deciding against labeling the product as Halal.

[womble]

Does slicing the jugular, wind pipe and what not cause a lot of suffering before death? I'd have thought death would have been pretty much straight away?

It would cause alot of suffering to me!

I almost want to be a vegetarian now Not really, I've killed my own meat before, but I don't like killing any animal (apart from rats) very much.

[chris]

Freudian slip, brilliant

lol, edited now

Tricky, and will have to come down to personal choice at the end of the day (and financial constraints for me too) but I saw a program a while back about the way animals are slaughtered for meat and it showed 2 different S.Houses.

One of the houses used the stun method and the other didn't. Interestingly, the animals which went to be stunned seemed more un-settled and distressed than the ones that went straight to slaughter. There were various theories as to why it un-settles the animals, but it was very thought provoking. After seeing that program I would prefer Halal to be honest.

I watched a documentry, where a cow was put in a machine, then turned upside down and then the throat slit - the poor animal was so distressed. Disgusting really.

I watched antoher documentry about milking cows - the cows come in to be milked automatically seemed much more happier than the ones that were pumped full of junk and forced milked - iirc the famer said it was the same for his slaughter stock - they go in, all stress free, slaughtered and next one goes in, the cows dont see the other cows being killed, etc.

A REALLY upsettting documentry, and I mean really - don't view if you're easily upset (I didn't think I was until I saw this) that just hilights how cruel humans can be is called 'Earthlings' - on google video. Won't link it for that reaason, but I thought I was ok with watching barbarric actions of humanity, but this I had to literally leave the office as i was in tears!

[chris]

I noticed in a local food outlet that Halal meat often remained unsold and destined for the 'mark down' shelf. I don't know why customers wouldn't buy it but I can understand a retailer deciding against labeling the product as Halal.

People probably don't understand the meaning of Halal, I'd have thought - maybe they associate it with Muslim culture and think it's not right for them or something?

[Glutton4...]

Another reason to support your local butcher - who should be able to tell you how and where the animal was slaughtered.

SECONDED! Yes, loudly! Why buy sub-standard supermarket meat in the first place?

[chris]

SECONDED! Yes, loudly! Why buy sub-standard supermarket meat in the first place?

I really wish we had a decent butcher locally. I was looking out for a poultry keeper local to me so I could buy my birds from them (pref off the vine)... esp for xmas. Next year I'll make a better effort!

[weekendwellies]

SECONDED! Yes, loudly! Why buy sub-standard supermarket meat in the first place?

In my younger days I did use a local butcher, however their prices rose riduculously at the same time as I had a growing family to feed. Cost drove me to supermarket meat. Perhaps when it is just me again I will be able to go back to the butcher, but not yet.

[womble]

SECONDED! Yes, loudly! Why buy sub-standard supermarket meat in the first place?

I have two brilliant butchers near me. I wanted to buy a nice beef roast a couple of years ago and went into both, for a small roast, too small really for the 4 of us, was £45.

Yesterday I went into Asda and bought a discounted large beef roast for £7.

I get wild meat and use that, but the farm shops and the butchers around me are extortionate, that's why I use supermarket meat sometimes.

At the local farmers market there is bacon to die for, but it's £1 a slice! That's £2 for a bacon sandwich. I have it about once a month and don't really get any supermarket bacon now.

[SarzWix]

Our butchers isn't that much more expensive than the supermarket for things like sausages, mince, stewing steak etc., but all the meat is reared a couple of miles away on the butcher's FiL's farm. Suits us down to the ground, especially now they've started selling free-range chicken too
I do occassionally buy Halal mutton in the supermarket though because I just can't get it any other way round here

[PAULW]

Our local butcher 40 years ago used to go down to Manchester and buy Kosher hindquarters of beef, nothing new in the world.