Burning treated softwood - DON'T!!

[pipscariad]

Just a very quick post. For those of you who burn wood, here is an important warning. If you 'scavenge' wood it is more likely to apply to you, as old fence posts may be the kind of thing you are burning. STOP. I have just discovered that older treated softwood contains arsenic, which once burned is released from the wood, making the resulting ash extremely harmful, potentially deadly. Very small amounts of arsenic are fatal, and families burning large amounts of treated softwood have suffered such side effects as severe headaches, nosebleeds and blackouts.

Sorry to sound alarmist here, but my OH has access to old fenceposts through his job, and we have been burning them in small amounts for a few years. Having just read about this we are horrified to know what we have exposed ourselves and the children to. We have just thrown out the logs and cleared all the ash from the woodburner wearing a dustmask. I feel quite sick. This should be a wider known fact, as arsenic has only been banned as a preservative in the past 6 or 7 years, so is still present in much of the old fencing.

Hopefully this information won't apply to any/many Grapes, but it's worth knowing about.

[Hilary B]

As with so many of these alarms, it is perhaps only a hazard if you are doing it to a large extent. If someone was burning a LOT of wood, and over (say) half of it was old fence posts (or sheds etc) the risks would be much greater than for those who have the occasional fire and burn only a tiny proportion of such posts.
Ash should always be treated with respect anyway. Ash from pure 'fresh' wood will still be alkaline (it was the original source of hydroxide for soap making, potash).
Caution is always sensible, just don't get carried away.
BTW, where did you remove the ash TO?

[RichmondHens]

Surely it's only hazardous if you inhale it? The smoke will dissipate on the wind very quickly. Laurel hedging contains cyanide I believe, and again, you have to be careful when burning it and not stand in the smoke, but as long as you keep clear of the smoke you should be OK.

[Capsid]

From a carbon footprint POV, I think it's best to avoid burning wood completely as this just returns C02 back to the environment. I chop up my fence panels and if small enough put them in a brown bin where they can be processed by the council into compost. Fence posts have to go to landfill where they may turn into oil in a few million years.

[pipscariad]

BTW, where did you remove the ash TO?

It went into a black bag and then the dustbin - which is where we always have put the ash, as I knew that it was no good for the garden, not being 'pure' untreated wood. (Thank goodness I didn't spread it on the plot , I'm sure it has happened...).

Thank you for the reassuring replies, luckily we haven't burnt nothing but treated wood, but we have burnt enough of it to make us wish we hadn't - as I said, OH has lots of waste fencing etc as a 'by product' of his work. Some of it is old hardwood and therefore fine, but much isn't.... In fact, the last lot was purely old fence posts, which is pretty bad luck - they're waiting behind the house ready to be sawn up! We can use some down at the plot for fencing in the hens, but the rest will have to go into the skip at work for specialist removal. Or I suppose I can offer them on Freecycle as fencing materials only, not for burning? Seems a shame for them to be wasted.

It isn't just the smoke/fumes that is harmful, but also the residue in the ash, which is more the part that bothered us.

[chris]

From a carbon footprint POV, I think it's best to avoid burning wood completely as this just returns C02 back to the environment. I chop up my fence panels and if small enough put them in a brown bin where they can be processed by the council into compost. Fence posts have to go to landfill where they may turn into oil in a few million years.

I read that wood burning is one of the most CO2 friendly ways of heating your home? Through the course of the trees life, it'll have absorbed the same CO2 it'll emit once burn - so in effect it's CO2 neutral?

Be interested to know otherwise though, as i'm planning on installing a modern wood burner, subject to planning permission!

[Mikey]

I remember looking at this a while back for a customer, and to my knowledge a wood burning in south wales is ok, as long as your chimney is lined. Open fires are fine too. We don't have the same restrictions as some major cities.

The main building regulations refer to the amount of free air coming into the room that your stove is in, and ensuring you have sufficient clear space around it to ensure nothing catches fire as a result of the stove, and that you have a solid floor for it to sit on, you should be able to find the info on your councils website.

[Capsid]

I read that wood burning is one of the most CO2 friendly ways of heating your home? Through the course of the trees life, it'll have absorbed the same CO2 it'll emit once burn - so in effect it's CO2 neutral?

Be interested to know otherwise though, as i'm planning on installing a modern wood burner, subject to planning permission!

I agree, but we need to be removing C02 from the atmosphere. Burning wood maintains the status quo. We need to grow more trees than those we burn. Ultimately, burning coal, gas and oil is the same thing, it's just that the trees grew a long time ago. So the best thing is not to burn anything if you can, but that doesn't leave many options.

[Mikey]

So you mean we need to plant more trees to collect co2 than all of the oil, gas, coal and wood that we burn globally.

Has anyone actually done a study to determine how many trees that would actually be? I'm guessing it's rather a lot.

[Capsid]

So you mean we need to plant more trees to collect co2 than all of the oil, gas, coal and wood that we burn globally.

Has anyone actually done a study to determine how many trees that would actually be? I'm guessing it's rather a lot.

From Wikipedia,

To further reduce U.S. carbon dioxide emissions by 7%, as stipulated by the Kyoto Protocol, would require the planting of "an area the size of Texas [8% of the area of Brazil] every 30 years".

So that's a lot of trees!
From the same article, it's the ocean that can absorb the most CO2.

Oceans are at present CO2 sinks, and represent the largest active carbon sink on Earth, absorbing more than a quarter of the carbon dioxide that humans put into the air.

[Mikey]

The problem with a carbon sink, is that in nature carbon is captured in two ways firstly in really cold water, but our water temperatures are increasing, and when this happens carbon is released back into the atmosphere. Secondly by phytoplankton, but by over fishing we are removing the preditors, of their preditors.

I'd say we are onto a loser either way, to much carbon, not enough diversity of life.

[Snadger]

My fruit trees seem to thrive on arsenic then!

[Mikey]

My fruit trees seem to thrive on arsenic then!

I would say you however are looking a little grey around the gills snadger.

[chris]

I remember looking at this a while back for a customer, and to my knowledge a wood burning in south wales is ok, as long as your chimney is lined. Open fires are fine too. We don't have the same restrictions as some major cities.

The main building regulations refer to the amount of free air coming into the room that your stove is in, and ensuring you have sufficient clear space around it to ensure nothing catches fire as a result of the stove, and that you have a solid floor for it to sit on, you should be able to find the info on your councils website.

My house doesn't have a chimney, only one of those stupid flues direct out the back (so a draft blows in from the fire). Looking into it, we'd need to put in a flue up and then out of the wall a bit higher up, then a chimney up the side of the house - which needs planning permission. Gonna get someone out to look if it's possible anyway - found fire-shop place that seems to do them in Taffs Well, which is right near me.

I agree, but we need to be removing C02 from the atmosphere. Burning wood maintains the status quo. We need to grow more trees than those we burn. Ultimately, burning coal, gas and oil is the same thing, it's just that the trees grew a long time ago. So the best thing is not to burn anything if you can, but that doesn't leave many options.

Ahh okay - I see your view now

[Mikey]

Nothing in life is ever simple eh butt.

You watching the very important game later?