Get Our Lads and Lass Home Now

[zebedee]

Of course they are worthy of our concern, they are human after all! But do not lose sight of the fact that they went in having had the risks explained to them, having been trained for those risks, and then personally accepting those risks, and doing the job any way!

[smallblueplanet]

And your point is, its their look-out? Define kind & tolerant!?

[Tyto Alba]

No one is suggesting that it is the armed forces themselves who decide to go to war or to come home.

When we say bring our forces home, we are directing this at the Government who are supposed to be working for us.

The opposition to the Iraq war both here and throughout Europe was overwhelming before it even started. Added to that we were given false premises for the action and the invasion was declared illegal by the united nations.

Our service personel are victims of this.

In addition, with the lack of real international law, the UN being ignored (and previous resolutions manipulated and misrepresented) is it any wonder that some oil rich states want to have a nuclear deterent? Who else is going to stop the Americans walking into their country?

It's time we held our own government to account. The problem is both major parties are so close together in policy that we don't really have a choice.....we have been disenfranchised. Our democracy is based on an adversarial system with two opposing points of view. When they broadly agree with each other they don't really need us.

[Two_Sheds]

If it's a war over oil...perhaps we should show our disapproval by not buying oil...?

just a thought

[zebedee]

I feel that, perhaps, this is far too much an emotive issue. I do not want to turn this forum into a place for religious, political and philosophical points that can, and unfortunately often do, turn into overheated arguments, which, in turn, lead to extremely bad feelings between people who have shared interests. I again offer my apologies, but my views are mine, based on personal experience. Perhaps I should leave the forum altogether if it is felt that I am being offensive? This was NOT my intention.

[Alison]

I don't think you are being offensive, Zebedee, and I can see where you are coming from. Obviously getting shot at or whatever is a risk in the armed services and anybody who claims otherwise is being naive. Where things differ somewhat is that they are there on behalf of the govenment and therefore should expect an element of support in getting them back safely, a kind of moral responsibility thing, I suppose.

Your point re the fact that this is an emotive issue is very pertinent, I must admit to being extremely surprised to find this thread on a gardening site and, although obviously an important and news worthy issue, did feel that it was very out of place here. There seems to have been a marked increase in non-gardening related threads recently and, whilst I enjoy taking part in some of these, are we perhaps in danger of losing the gardening focus which, presumably, caused most of us to join in the first place?

[Birdie Wife]

My feelings too Alison, you've summed it up just right. Don't leave zebedee, we value your contributions and I for one think the forum would be poorer if you weren't here. I didn't want to get involved in this thread because while I have strong opinions on the subject, I didn't feel this was the right place to air them. There's good reasons why politics and religion are not seen as topics for general conversation. Can we get back to gardening now please?

[Lesley Jay]

Zebedee you will NOT leave the forum!!!

This is General Chitchat and I believe on this board that the members can discuss a wide range of subjects - religion, politics etc. I like to leave the threads alone and not jump in with heavy handed moderating. I have only closed threads on a few occassions.

The subject of this thread is a current news item and everyone will have their own views. We have some damned good discussions and debates on this forum and long may they continue.

[OverWyreGrower]

I agree LJ!

It's interesting to read other people's viewpoints on news items and the like. Even if they don't agree with my view, it often gives me a minute to pause and have another think about things.

I haven't contributed to this thread as I think several people have expressed opinions similar to my own (see, I'm sitting on the fence now) but I've read it (and other OT threads) with great interest (even when I should be re-calculating my department's budget)

[beefy]

Well Then

I dont look in in the middle of the day as usual and its all kicking off people - now sit back , calm down and relax.

I didnt think it was out of place here - yes its a gardening site but this is in the General Chitcat section I kept it clean and its nonGYO .

Oil the rights and wrongs of our involvment in the Middle East etc are not the issues here.When you join up to serve your country you do exactly that -you serve your country -ALL of it and everyone in it. The armed forces carry out the will of Her Majesties Govt .We elected that Govt and for better or worse they make the decisions for us .The armed forces carry out those wishes without discussion .If Tony says do this the military says yes sir and gets it done .One of the most astonishing things you will find if you know people in the forces is that they may not agree with what they are doing but they will do it without question because they serve their country .Yes they are volunteers but they are professionals highly trained and extremely capable of doing their job where ever in the world that may be.

If your still with me (I know, its tough)the point I was trying to make (and quite badly when I read it through) was that I dont want to see our troops being used as bargining chips as seems to be happening.Iran seem to want us to go on bended knee and appologise for them doing their job and you can bet that if that happens the next cry will be compensation which will all have to be delivered before anyone is released.

I cant speak for the captives but a few of my mates who were in the Army have all said that if they were in that situation they would not want to be used as pawns in a game and they would rather that someone would come "kick the door down and get us so we can do what we do best - fight"

Finally (I can hear the sighs of releif) if it wasn't for the forces we possibly would not be able to have this discussion at all .They deserve our respect and our support .

P.S . If you dont know it by now I like to get a little contreversial every now and again -like to push the boundries and see where we all end up at. Nobody needs to leave or feel upset .If it makes you think and evaluate your position on things then I think thats a good thing.


Discuss

[Tyto Alba]

I don't think anybody has been offended or upset by this discussion.

[WiZeR]

Of course they are worthy of our concern, they are human after all! But do not lose sight of the fact that they went in having had the risks explained to them, having been trained for those risks, and then personally accepting those risks, and doing the job any way!

here here, couldn't agree more.

I will NOT be leaving this forum either, you don't get rid of me that easy.

[Digger-07]

I've just heard Blair on the radio thanking everyone (including of course the Americans) but not the person who made the release possible - the President of Iran.

Why ???

[beefy]

Good to hear the troops have been released and are on the way home unharmed .At the end of the day we got the right result- everyone coming home with no casulties-thats the most important thing.

[Two_Sheds]

You should be able to voice your opinions; if I don't like what you say I can 1) answer back
2) ignore the thread
3) stick you on my Ignore list so I can't read your postings!

Yes, its a gardening forum, but it'd be dull indeed if that's all we talked about. Keep it up!