Vegetarianism

[zazen999]

Right you lot.
I started this thread hoping to hear some really convincing arguments as to why becoming a vegetarian is the 'right' thing to do!
Up until now all I've heard is that meat is bleugh, there's loads of good vegetarian cookbooks,parents were vegetarian so I am, health reasons dictated a change in diet, and the CJD scare was a start.
Sorry, but this all seems a bit 'wishy washy' to me. Please give me some facts and concrete reasons for to change.
One thing I will say is that the vegetarians on the vine deffo don't blow there own trumpet or ram it down your throat.
Trying to get some info off you lot is like pulling teeth!

Perhaps it's just up to you!

If you want research about feeding cattle and growing veg per acreage; then perhaps google can be your friend.

I love being veggie, but I'm not going to shove a courgette down anyone's throat [so to speak] but will happily fight my corner to those who are trying to make huge leaps of generalisations that just aren't there for any reasonable person. After all, we can't control which beasties we tread on when walking to the plot, so therefore was have to assume that some creatures are killed during production of veg and move on.

[Snadger]

Sorry, but you have no idea how many times I've heard that in the last 27 years.

Usually I'm alot more severe and sarcastic back, depending on whether I have a gob full of felafel or not. Which incidentally, is food of the gods. Just in case you have never had any. Closely followed by Dosas.

You...........severe and sarcastic???..............Never!!!!!!!

[Glutton4...]

Isn't Vegatarianism one of the Vine's taboo subjects?




#Justsaying

[Jelliebabe]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Lots of things that had not occured to me... I for one will certainly be exploring more vegetarian cooking (although I doubt that I will give up meat).

I love felafel too!

[Snadger]

Isn't Vegatarianism one of the Vine's taboo subjects?




#Justsaying

NO,............ thats P**sn*ps and Chr***mas. How can vegetarianism be taboo on a Grow Your Own forum??????

[Potstubsdustbins]

The earliest mention of the use of soya milk known at this time is a stone slab found in China dated AD25-220. It is also mentioned in a Chinese book something to do with The Four Taboos dated AD82.

Livestock milk is believed to have come with the domestication of animals in south west asia around 9000-7000BC.

The problem some people may have with soya is the distance it has to travel to reach these shores (air miles and all that). The main producers are starting at the largest USA, Brazil, Argentina, China and India.

Colin

[Glutton4...]

NO,............ thats P**sn*ps and Chr***mas. How can vegetarianism be taboo on a Grow Your Own forum??????

Vegetarianism, Cyclists, Off-Roaders...

[Potstubsdustbins]

I do hope it is not taboo I for one am learning quite a lot through doing some research. As in I had no idea what a felafel was so I have had a quick check and found a recipe does sound GOOD.

Colin

[Glutton4...]

I had to G**gle them too, Potty.

[OverWyreGrower]

Interestingly, the most militant non-meat eater I came across (a vegan, rather than veggie) was reeling out her 'stock' phrases to those around her, one of which was.... "You should only eat meat if you could kill another living creature and eat it, because you should face up to it. Otherwise, you're all cowards..."

So, of course, I piped up "Yes, I have done that, only a few months ago in fact." I was perfectly prepared to debate the issue with her (in a sensible manner). However, apparantly, she'd never actually had anyone answer back, and couldn't find any other arguments/debating points to speak about. Shame really!

Mind you, I was surprised that the majority of her diet seemed to be junk-type food - lots of processed things and 'substitutes'; I always thought that vegans would eat much healthier than everyone else, because of the lack of ready-meal/junk food available for vegans. I still can't get my head round what you would actually eat... can't imagine a life without eggs or cheese!

[Helgalush]

Right you lot.
I started this thread hoping to hear some really convincing arguments as to why becoming a vegetarian is the 'right' thing to do!
Up until now all I've heard is that meat is bleugh, there's loads of good vegetarian cookbooks,parents were vegetarian so I am, health reasons dictated a change in diet, and the CJD scare was a start.
Sorry, but this all seems a bit 'wishy washy' to me. Please give me some facts and concrete reasons for to change.
One thing I will say is that the vegetarians on the vine deffo don't blow there own trumpet or ram it down your throat.
Trying to get some info off you lot is like pulling teeth!

Oh right sorry, I was hanging back because I didnt want to go on about it! (Having probably already done so! ). Also because I didnt want to be accused of preaching/trying to 'convert' people/thinking that "my way is the right way". Because I don't, its just right for me, right now, on the basis of things as they stand. Obviously I am happy with the choice I have made, but I don't deal in black and white, nothing is absolute (no not even for a vegan - because, as has already been discussed, exploitation (whether human or animal or the environment) is involved in most parts of consumerism).

I can point you in the direction of some information I have come across, but no doubt there will be some bias on the way it is presented, but nonetheless I do find it very interesting, even if as a starting point.

This links to three other links about Food Security. I haven't read all three - just the one about UK Farming and Global Food Security: Global Food Security - The Vegan Society

There are also a couple of videos on the Vegan Society website that talk about environmental/ecological reasons to go vegan (sorry these are vegan rather than veggie but I am more familiar with the VS website for obvious reasons, than veggie ones). I can't link to them individually so I recommend watching ch 4, 5 and 6 deal with environment/farming issues, ch 3 is health I think. Be cautious with chapter 7 (the one titled Ethics) as it has some distressing footage I couldn't watch it I am afraid. Making the Connection - The Vegan Society

Again I am well aware of the potential arguments about bias of the source of these materials. It would be good to go back to the original source documents listed, such as the UN's "Livestock's Long Shadow" report, to read things in the original context.

Compassion in World Farming is a good website too: Compassion in World Farming - The farm animal welfare charity

A good book on the issue is "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer, which has got great reviews by the Observer, the Times and Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall. He interviews farmers, activists, vegans, vegetarians, omnivores, slaughter-house workers etc. I've only managed to read the opening chapter so far as my OH was reading it (and I am building up to it! ). Here it is on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eating-Anima...8072528&sr=8-1


And just to say that you can have an unhealthy vegan diet, just the same as you can have an unhealthy omnivore diet. If you live on processed junk food, the result will be pretty much the same. There is vegan chocolate, crisps, sausage rolls, cakes, biscuits, fake meats, and vegan pastry, even Bisto regular gravy granules are vegan, all readily available in the shops. If you don't cook with fresh vegetables, fruits, wholegrains, pulses, nuts, seeds, oils, etc then you are missing the benefits of those regardless of whatever else you eat, and making your body deal with a lot of unnecessary salt/fat/sugar. I don't mean on the Grapevine because I think on here more people than most are aware of where their food comes from and the effort taken to produce it. But many people say they don't have the time/money to cook proper meals with good quality ingredients, and rely on fast food/junk food/ready meals etc because its an easy fix when time/money is so pressurised for lots of people. I'm not judging, I am just saying its the way things are.

[Two_Sheds]

Always puzzled me too, if you dont agree/like something, why would you need a substitute?

Perhaps meat is an easy substitute for a more complex, more interesting, healthier meal?

I don't do those fake-salami type things but I do like a bit of Quorn chunks now and again in a stir fry. I don't think of it as fake-chicken (heck, after 24 years I can't remember what chicken even tastes like) I just like it's dense texture.

I'll tell you a good reason to eat fake-meats though: so you can have something on your plate that doesn't make bullies pick on you

I came across a lot more meat eaters trying to catch me out about being a vegetarian than I ever have vegetarians 'preaching' at me.

Same here. See my last remark above ^
I have never told someone they shouldn't eat meat, I just give (if asked) my reasons for not doing so. I then have to sit and listen to a diatribe on how "wrong" I am. Cheers

In our house live 2 real carnivores, they go 'woof'.

Come on Hilary, you know they are omnivores, and actually need a good balanced diet that includes plant foods. They can also be very healthy on a veggie diet. It's a question of supplying the correct nutrients, and the particular foods that contain those nutrients.
Our dog had a plate of rice, pasta, carrot, courgette & veggie gravy the other day when we ran out of tinned. She woofed it down

Vegetarianism, Cyclists,

Why don't you add "dressmakers" and that will be me, then

[Patchninja]

My daughter's father in law is a vegetarian - now I am mad about any kind of pie you could throw at me. I've never eaten one I didn't like. So, once over in England, staying with my daughter's in-laws I treated me and the mother-in-law to a pork pie for lunch. While away from the table seeing to a grandson, more than half the pie disappeared into the vegetarian!

[Two_Sheds]

I'll tell you a good reason to eat fake-meats though: so you can have something on your plate that doesn't make bullies pick on you

That's still niggling me, so I'll explain. I avoid eating with Himself's family (and we're expected to at least once a month). Even after 4 years they still question me about my food, trying to goad me into an argument, and all of them take my menu and order for me "oh you can have omelette; they do vegetarian lasagne, that's OK isn't it?;" like I not only can't feed myself properly but I can't read a menu either.

When they cook a meal for me, it has to be something super-fussy in pastry that "accidentally" contains animal fats, or comes covered with gravy from the meat tin .
Each and every time, I text ahead and ask for just a jacket potato, but in 4 years I've only had one. Last weekend I was told "you can't just have a jacket potato, so I ordered you a curry from the takeaway, it was £20 you know !!!" When I said I couldn't possibly eat that much curry on a hot lunchtime, I was made aware that the family was "trying to accommodate me". Guess what they all had? Jacket spuds, cooked in a tray with the chicken.

Jeez



oh, and then the men ate all the veggie curry after they'd had their chicken and spuds

[zazen999]

Two-sheds - I've never ever had that, I had one ex whose mum would cook sunday roast and give me a cheese sandwich - but never ever had that sort of thing from anyone. If anyone treated my food choices like that then I'd just order my own, and pay separately.