Yet again, more job advice!

[Two_Sheds]

Mrs D how awful !
Almost exactly the same thing happened to me 16 years ago with a major high street newsagent/bookseller. I was "responsible" for the office (even though I wasn't allowed to spend my time in there, I had to be on the shop floor at all times).
A fair amount of money went missing one day.
I was held accountable for it, on the basis that I was "responsible" for the office (a duty I didn't actually receive any training for).
Funnily enough, the company was undergoing a restructure, with redundancies imminent. It was cheaper for the company if people resigned, of course, or took voluntary redundancy.

I could see what was happening, that I was being set up, so I hung on with gritted teeth for 6 months (of hell ~ I was grilled & grilled by head office security and sent to Coventry by most of my staff on the orders of my line manager).

It was the most miserable 6 months of my life I think ~ get out while you can, with your head held high.

[Glutton4...]

They want you out. That's it. I favour telling them to shove it, after all they have been sh!tt!ng on you for months. My Husband had this done to him. Not nice. However, Pigletwillie's post is a cracker!

I'm getting splinters in my bum from sitting on this fence!

Seriously ((HUGS)) from me, whichever option you choose.

[rustylady]

Pigletwillie has got it spot on. You need (and are entitled to) someone with you at this meeting. Do you belong to a union? If so, get someone from there as your companion. Make a list of everything that has happened. Even the biggest companies have to abide by procedures (check the ACAS site). In the end, for your own wellbeing, you will be better off out of there but you don't have to let them blacken your name.

[cardiffsteve]

And if you walk out or go sick, remember that your employer can't give you a bad reference in future.
I suppose they could decline.

[rustylady]

^^^ Employers have to be very very careful when giving references. If they give a bad one then they have to be very very careful to back it up. And you are entitled to see any references given by previous employers when employing for new jobs. It's a horrible situation, and one I have been in. I gave in and took retirement, even though I didn't want to. I had just had enough.

[Aberdeenplotter]

Even although you may be culpable in the Company's eyes, that doesn't make you culpable at all and in the circumstances you have described to us, it is unlikely that an Employment Tribunal will consider that you are culpable. Take a list of the things you are unhappy about with you to your disciplinary meeting and make sure that you are given the opportunity to air your grievances and make it crystal clear that the things that have gone wrong are as a result of the Company's failings and not yours. Do make it clear you are not prepared to accept any censure whatever in respect of this latest incident and that you will pursuing matters via an Industrial Tribunal if the worst comes to the worst.

My instinct says it's much easier to get another job out of a job but that can't be at any cost. Stick to your guns and don't take any crap from them. Good luck whatever happens.

[pigletwillie]

Oh, and as a really nice downer for your boss go in with a dictaphone and tape the whole meeting, he cannot get away with diddly then and its amazing how managers dont like to have what they said lobbed back at them if there is any comeback.

Trust me, I have been on both sides of the fence.

[zazen999]

And if you walk out or go sick, remember that your employer can't give you a bad reference in future.
I suppose they could decline.

Sorry Steve, but this is totally untrue. Employers can say what they want, as long as it is factually correct.

[cardiffsteve]

No worries! I dont want to give bad advice.

[Newton]

Hey pigletwillie....do you fancy a trip to manchester to sit in on the meeting?

I would insist on representation. The blame seems to lie with your ex colleague although you may have some responsibility but you have some explanation too.

You should be negotiating here for a redundancy payment. Yours isn't a stackable offence and they appear to be on a witch hunt.

[pigletwillie]

Well, theyve found one there lol. Sorry just couldnt resist that one

[zazen999]

Hey pigletwillie....do you fancy a trip to manchester to sit in on the meeting?

I would insist on representation. The blame seems to lie with your ex colleague although you may have some responsibility but you have some explanation too.

You should be negotiating here for a redundancy payment. Yours isn't a stackable offence and they appear to be on a witch hunt.

Just a couple of points; it's only union reps or colleagues who could sit in on the meeting, and you can't negotiate a redundancy if you haven't been made redundant.

Also, if you resigned Mrs D - then they could still say in a reference that you had resigned whilst under investigation for gross misconduct, if that's what they are going to say on Wednesday.

Remember HR depts work for the company, not for the employee.

Even if you could prove that you were being victimised to get the area manager's people in post, and could take it to a tribunal, very very few tribunals make it and even fewer are successful; and the payout can be limited to the cost of 'making good' - ie how much you might have earnt in your notice period - and that's if the tribunal judge sees it your way.

Personally, I'd say on Monday - 'look chaps. It's evident you want me out - I can't do right for doing wrong . So what do you say, pay me off, give me a decent reference and I'll go now and not take out a grievance against * manager?' It's called a Compromise Agreement and usually, you can negotiate a good sum to tide you over and get you out of the building there and then. Then, no need to drag you or them through the process, no need for you to raise a grievance and take the manager through the mill; it's all done and dusted and everyone's happy.

[Glutton4...]

^^ Smart @rse!

[zazen999]

^^ Smart @rse!

I'm not being smart - just trying to make sure that Mrs D doesn't compromise herself with bad [even though it might be well intended] advice. With the government set on reducing all employee's rights, one has to try and find a win-win solution these days as crying 'tribunal' may be all bluff and bluster but most employers these days will just say 'go on then' knowing that even if they did get taken to a tribunal, they would end up paying little more than what they would pay anyway...and that's if they cant put so many delaying or bullying tactics in to try and persuade the employee to back down. It's really not worth it.

But you knew that, didn't you.

[smallblueplanet]

....I dont feel safe, I dont feel happy and I dont want to be there.

Would it look better on a CV to walk tho, or to be dismissed?

Have just asked OH their opinion (they were HR to HR Dept at Ford Motors in Warley)... 'It's better to walk, but if there are no grounds for dismissal then you could take them to Tribunal'.

My view though is what is the point in fighting to keep yourself in a job that makes you miserable? Take this as an opportunity being presented to you to move on. Don't be negative about yourself or your skills though, it's your choice to move on to other things.

We only get one go at this life - find yourself doing something you love if you can...the OH left Ford and is now an archaeologist with the National Trust. Which do you think they love doing?

Carpe Diem!