Emotive subject

[baldrick]

I'm not getting into the strike discussion, but I HUGELY object to this label. And the 'scum' label

who mentioned scum? There are many categories of people who do not work in an employed/self employed sense. Some are raising children, some are sick or disabled, some are carers or are trying to find work and failing....not their own fault and they are rightly helped. Others are, quite simply SCROUNGERS. They refuse to work or look for work on the grounds their parents didnt work and their own kids dont work. They wont contribute to society so in my view they have a cheek whining when the school is shut so they have to look after the kids and the bin is full so they have to tread it down. People strike for decent pay, conditions and pension and also to protect services given to all. I deal with many many people every day who cannot work through no fault of their own. By and large they react with horror, disbelief and distress that keeps me awake at night when they realise how big the holes in the safety net are. Funnily enough the verbal abuse, the assaults, the threats to abandon children and the threats (sometimes carried out) to damage property (thereby inconveniencing decent people who are just wanting help) always come from....yes, youve guessed it. Scroungers! The same people time and time again who have never worked, never had any good reason not to work, fail to comply with reasonable instructions then react violently and stop decent people getting the help they need. As a junior member of staff I accepted all of this for job security and a pension. Ive been assaulted, spat at and have verbal abuse daily. I earn my wages and my pension.Sorry if the term scrounger offends but I make no apology for using it and thinking it.

[baldrick]

Perhaps i should have been clearer. The community responsible for themselves means the entire community of everyone living everywhere in any kind of group. Being responsible means taking personal responsibility for your own actions, not seeking to blame someone else/something else, or make ezxcuses for them, the drink made me do it/I've watched too many episodes of jeremy kyle etc
It didn't mean misread what I wrote so thoroughly you could interpret it as meaning anyone who receives benefits. The fact that I replied to a specific quote should have made that clear.

Anyway, happy strike day. Not sure about the upswell of public support. The apathy of the general public is legendary, so they may well be behind it, just not actually saying it or showing it or wanting to remove the head in the sand about anything but bankers.

very true. Understood. Until people get off their bum and take responsibility we are doomed. Myself Im sick of hearing "the council should clear this mess" "the council should do this" "the council should do that" Where I live there are people who think it is totally acceptable to dump sofas, fridges etc as its "the councils job" to clear them up. I get told not to pick up my dog poo"coz nobody else does" (actually yes they do), the teachers are to blame for undisciplined kids (whose job is it to guide them out of school time exactly???) and so on and so on. Ive just realised I sound like a screaming far righter when actually Im a ban the cane ban the bomb never lay a hand on my (well behaved respectful) kids softy leftie....

[Seahorse]

I agree that people should take responsibilty for their own lives but a) that's easy for me to say, with my good education, nice house, etc and b) the 'scroungers' at the bottom aren't the ones mucking up our economy, it's the greedy b's at the top! Of course there are people freeloading off the benefits system but they aren't the ones we should be pointing the finger at. As a percentage, the money that goes to them is very small, it's the culture of bonuses and tax avoidance amongst the already rich that needs sorting out.

[FionaH]

Oh here we go again! Why does every thread about anything vaguely political get back to "benefit scroungers"?
Yes there are people who abuse the system.
Yes there are people who do not want to work.
Yes there are people who are just plain lazy.
I know this because SO much is written about them. So much in fact that if I simply believed what I read I would think that ALL people on benefits are feckless thieves.

Stop and think guys. Many many people are on benefits because they can not find work!!
Many women are on benefits due to absent fathers and the lack of affordable childcare.
Many bright educated youngsters can not find a job because they have no experience.
Don't even get me started on where you aquire a work ethic if you have been brought up in poverty with no example of anyone working around you.

Anyway back to the point, anyone else prepared to go out on strike?

[Potstubsdustbins]

And there is another 2 statements that I disagree with

There is money, it's just being hoarded. This article says much about the idea of 'wealth-creators': The 1% are the very best destroyers of*wealth the world has ever seen | George Monbiot

Sarz you are perfectly entitled to disagree. Personally I give about as much credence to what I read in the Guardian as to what I read in the Sun, two sides of the same coin.

Colin

[pigletwillie]

Oh here we go again! Why does every thread about anything vaguely political get back to "benefit scroungers"?
Yes there are people who abuse the system.
Yes there are people who do not want to work.
Yes there are people who are just plain lazy.
I know this because SO much is written about them. So much in fact that if I simply believed what I read I would think that ALL people on benefits are feckless thieves.

Stop and think guys. Many many people are on benefits because they can not find work!!
Many women are on benefits due to absent fathers and the lack of affordable childcare.
Many bright educated youngsters can not find a job because they have no experience.
Don't even get me started on where you aquire a work ethic if you have been brought up in poverty with no example of anyone working around you.

Anyway back to the point, anyone else prepared to go out on strike?

Here here, yes £2 billion a year goes on benefit fraud but most is highly organised fraud and the rest fairly low level. Just remember that Top Shops owner Phillip Green Paid his wife a ONE BILLION pound bonus off shore to avoid £600 millions worth of tax hit. Fair play to the wealthy but pay your dues.

[Mikey]

That's a myth too. Just ask Mrs Dobby what protection she had, or what her years of service have been rewarded with.
The only real form of protection in your job is to be in with the boss

Or be your own boss, that makes for pretty good protection. Aslong as you can swim against the tide.

[Mikey]

Good old Gordon Taxed my pension fund at 5% mid way through its life. I had no choice. The public sector pension is not paid through a bought annuity at retirement like everybody else so they didn't suffer that erosion of benefits.

Private pensions are rarely subsidised as they are in the public sector, you won't see many small companies adding 5-6% extra into the pot for their employees, as happens with public pensions. Whereas I don't agree with this action, the scheme in the first place is far better than your average equivalent private pension.

I remember a steel company in Port Talbot going pop, having utilised all of their employees pension contributions. Its employees were left out of work and some of those already retired were left without a pot to...well you get the drift.

[FROSTYFRECKLE]

Good luck to Snadger and anyone else prepared to strike. I've never been on strike, never been a member of a union (not for any political reason just never joined one). Have been made redundant 3 times. Mr Frosty was a member of the FBU and marched in support of the miners. He missed the Fire Strikes as he retired just before them. During the Fire Strikes he supported his ex-colleagues. I guess if you believe the right wing media Mr Frosty has one of these Gold Plated Pensions. Mr Frosty's pension is less than the personal tax allowance, prior to the increase in the personal allowance Mr Frosty paid tax on his pension and incurred a tax bill due to the stoopid computer programme used to calculate tax. He paid 11% of his wages into his pension and has a medical increment included (retired due to a neurological condition). Workers both public and private sector need pension protection and protection from any more bright ideas being spouted by people who do not live in the real world (ideas like making it easier for employers to sack workers - the man is a bl**dy fool).

[Snadger]

Private pensions are rarely subsidised as they are in the public sector, you won't see many small companies adding 5-6% extra into the pot for their employees, as happens with public pensions. Whereas I don't agree with this action, the scheme in the first place is far better than your average equivalent private pension.

I remember a steel company in Port Talbot going pop, having utilised all of their employees pension contributions. Its employees were left out of work and some of those already retired were left without a pot to...well you get the drift.

Between 1970 and 1980 I worked for British Steel Corp (formally Consett Iron Company) and was made redundant when it closed with the loss of 7000-ish jobs.
Luckily the British Steel pension administration people just caught up with me this year and they will honour my entitlement!

[Thelma Sanders]

I blame Gordon for taxing private pension schemes, cos if he'd left them alone, the returns would have been better on a lot of them, and some of us would be more inclined to think the public sector ones should be left alone. .
He seemed to think that only wealthy people had company pensions, but when I was paying in for mine I was a single mum..very far from wealthy, but trying to put some buy for later.
The public pensions never got taxed, so our money was going to suport funds in those schemes, rather than supporting funds in our own. The treatment of the 2 types of pensions wasn't fair then, and it isn't now.

Shame there's going to be strikes about it though ;(

[SarzWix]

My private pension is worth all of £2500 I've just been told. By the time I'm 60+, it will be worth next to nothing, a pint of milk a week maybe. My OH doesn't have any pension provision at all, he's never been given the opportunity to join a company scheme. But despite that, I don't begrudge the public sector their pensions at all. I don't think that what the private sector don't do should be the model that everything is based on. It's quite obvious that the private sector is the one that needs reform, so that the workers are paid more of the product of their labour, rather than it being secreted away by the t****s at the top! And perhaps it's the top tier who ought to be paying the taxes to prop up the pensions, not the people at the bottom who have to lose out.

[taff]

Between 1970 and 1980 I worked for British Steel Corp (formally Consett Iron Company) and was made redundant when it closed with the loss of 7000-ish jobs.
Luckily the British Steel pension administration people just caught up with me this year and they will honour my entitlement!

no need to strike then now is there?







JUST KIDDING!!!!!

[Snadger]

no need to strike then now is there?







JUST KIDDING!!!!!

Ah, but from 1980 until now I've worked in the public sector and paid into a public sector pension fund which gives me an annual update on how I stand now and what my pension would be if I retired at any time between now and 66.
Strike or no strike,if the government proposals DO go through, I dread to think what my next annual update will show?

[Potstubsdustbins]

Or be your own boss, that makes for pretty good protection. Aslong as you can swim against the tide.

I am my own boss and I have tried to sack myself twice for gross misconduct failed both times.

Tongue in cheek Colin